Howdy all, back from the dead here. Quick question if I may…
I have just finished lamming a short stocky eggy fun board. Its got a rounded nose, quite a bit of volume with boxy rails, and 3 fin thruster set up on a rounded pin tail. I don’t have very hard edges yet as I put that in with hot coat stages. But I am wondering, with this being an all round catch everything type fun board, should I reconsider putting sharp tail rails on it? I know the basics in that a soft rail holds and a sharp one releases. but not really experienced at surfing enough to know how that will actually feel or whether it could RUIN the board or not, and this is my best board yet (manufacture process wise!) and I haven’t made a single mistake (maybe speaking too soon!) so I really want this board to stay good. Is it risky leaving softer edge on tail? I have never made a rounded pin tail either, so I am not sure whether to just stick to what I normally do (sharp tail from just in front of side bites) or try a slightly less sharp tail. I would really appreciate any tips or advice here. thanks
My 2 cents: I would go with hard edge from fin area back. I like the round tail rail on my longboard, but anything under 8’ I like the harder rail in back. That’s just my preference.
Thanks Huck, in absence of any other info I will stick with that even if it is only your preference! Any ideas on how it affects it compared to more rounded?
Depends on what you want from your board. Personally I like fast boards, really fast boards. I would rather have to bleed off the speed than wish I had a more.
The boards I have with fuller rails and softer edges seem much slower coming out of turns. They don’t have the squirt the sharp railed boards have. They also seem to be missing the same top end speed. A well respected shaper here in Hawaii saw one of them and told me to add a bead of glass and make a hard edge.
Now I put a well defined edge, or a very small diameter curve on my rails from way up and they get very hard as they reach the fin cluster. I don’t like the squared off rails in the tail either. I have several boards with tail rails that are less than 45 degree angles.
Now if you were making a board for nose riding, I’d say keep the rails softer.
For me, the round tail rails snuggle up in the pocket just fine, but when a section is closing down on me and I want to pump some speed, or drop down and turn hard back up to the face, I don’t seem to get the same desired result with a round rail in back. But like I say, I do find them sweet for trimming in the pocket, like say a high tide session at a point break.
Sharkcountry, I’ve often thought about adding a bead or something to "thin out’ a rail. Where on the rail …middle…bottom… would that be placed ? Size ?
Thanks
Not sure what you mean by thin out a rail. I do it in the shaping. Look up the S-rail from Stewart, or the Santa Cruz G-deck. Think of deck channels, but you cut away some of the thickness instead of just adding that groove.
I prefer having the wider section on the bottom versus what everyone is doing now with the Greenough edge design.
I don’t think you would want to add beads of glass, maybe add more foam and glass. Some of the rails I did were the result of crowning the deck thinking that I was going to add a wood skin, but then not making the curve just right. I ended up not adding the wood skins and when I added the outer rail piece, it didn’t flow with the deck. I added a 1" wide strip to get the final width I wanted. I could have created deck channels, but I ended up doing an S-rail, where the bottom section has about a 1" diameter curve then it curves back up to the deck which is probably 1.5" to 2"
I’ve done several boards with the deck channels, but they are mostly over 7’. With those I’ll shape out the rail, then cut in the channel, and it’s a little further in from the edge.
I suppose you could take a 1" or 2" dowel and wrap some course grit sand paper then sand away the curve of your rail to create the s-rail, then add glass over the area that is exposed. You may end up ruining your board.
The glass bead I mentioned earlier is only to give the bottom edge enough material to make a hard edge not just having a build up of resin. Like having a thickener, but you can lay long strips of glass threads. Just like doing a glassed on fin build up, or a glass leash loop.
Thanks, I understood all of that except when you said “I don’t like the squared off rails in the tail either.”. I thought you were saying you love sharp rails, or are you saying you do like sharp, but not 90 degrees more like a knife edge sticking out, is that right?
thanks again, gonna sharpen these up with hotcoat. Its a fun board but i want speed and long carving turns more than sharp tight turns, so sharp is better than rounded, but not razor sharp, will leave a tad looser than that i think but definitely too round as it is now so i have some sanding to do!
You’ll often see the tails of boards that have a straight edge from deck to bottom and slightly rounded edges. I don’t do that, I have a curve sloping down from the deck to the bottom. I’ve found the board I’ve made with an angle about 45 degrees or less and edge in the tail are little rockets.
Sometimes I’ll use a slightly rounded rail with a well defined edge along the bottom, called a tucked under rail. Think of having a dowel and then running that dowel over a piece of sand paper until you have a nice flat side, maybe sanding about a third of the dowel away. You want that kind of edge. The tucked edge rail releases water and makes the board faster, but if you make the rail too thick, you’ll have a harder time sinking it into the wave when you turn. That combination can also cause the board to lose grip when you are riding along the wall up high on a steep wave.
I think you might be better doing what you feel comfortable with based on your experience surfing. Ride the board and after a while you may see things you like and don’t like, then you have things to work out on the next board.
For more design input, research Geoff McCoy surfboards. He makes very good boards that are very easy to ride. He makes his rails thick and rounder except in the tail where he adds edge. He has quite a few videos talking about his design concepts.
I had done resin beads for the edge using strands of finrope and adding milled fiber to the resin. That gives you a hard edge you can really hone. I use a rounded rail shape with the edge tapering from 1/4" in front of the fins to maybe 1/8" at the tailblock. I think the combo gives me a good compromise between hold and release.
A softer edge, all else equal, will want to slide sideways and will require larger fins. A hard rail in the tail forces water off and away from it, and its through this that you gain control and speed. If you are not pushing against water, somewhere, you are sliding sideways.
I experimented with this myself on a modern shortboard design with very soft, round rails throughout the whole board. It was a quad/thruster option, and even when using 5 large fins, it still would not hold and drive and wanted to slide sideways.
Keep the rails hard behind the front fins, fading to soft about 3-6 inches in front of the front fins.
I remember someone on Sways used to tape off and melt wax to create edges for experiments, surf them and modify until he was happy enough to copy the result in glass.
