I’ve been searching around but not really finding a good collection of things.
Would anyone know a site and/or posting with a detailed descriptions of tail shapes and how they feel/work. (round, square, swallow, etc).
Thanks in advance…
Rick
Interesting, but check out the list of possible variables I came up with:
overall dims, length from WP back, curve, V, concave, double, spiral, Bonzer, domed, flat, soft rail, hard rail, kicked, accelerated, low, flat, fins and configuration…where’s your foot usually…
I think you could pick any 3 (or 4, or 5), apply outline shape, discuss, change one, and it could be a real different animal.
TAIL SHAPE
Square tail: Provides the cleanest water release plus a corner that provides the best bite. The best drive (forward thrust from pushing down on the rail) is obtained with this shape.
Swallow tail: These tails when the tips are in the normal 4"-5" range will produce a very similar feel to the square tail. When they are very far apart, such as a FISH style (shown here), the outline becomes very straight and the drive is accented.
Squash tail: Is nothing more than a square tail with the corners rounded, thus softening the bite and drive of the square, but also making the turn a little smoother and tighter.
Diamond tail: This shape moves the release point forward, essentially shortening the outline and rail rocker. This is particularly advantageous when a contest limits you to a 9-0 minimum and your 9-0 diamond has only 8-10 of rail line. An even tighter radius turn is the result, but with a little less drive than the squash or square.
Pin tail: Has a continuous curve coming to a point at the tip. This shape has the easiest connection from front to back side turn but has the least drive.
*** used without permission from Rich Harbour: http://www.harboursurfboards.com/info_design.html#tailshape ***
Proves my point and worse. Succinct, illustrated, but substitutes 2D pictures for what it lacks in precision and therefore meaning and therefore utility.
eg, just for one, because I don’t want to spend the evening on it, see the contradictions and omitted relationships between the first, second, and third shapes. Do not swallows give bite as do the corners on squares? “Accentuated drive” of straighter line doesn’t give the fish outline the superior drive? Starightest rail line doesnt give cleanest release? etc
…Rickrickrick
the tail shape is less important than the tail items themself working all together; like Janklow said.
the swallow and the pin tails are very important
…Soulstice
the real function behind the swallow tail (and hook tails)(I have been using these tails for 20 years…)
is to bring the back fin “backwards” to provide more bite, more “into” the water
with this you can reach tight turns in the pocket; no matter if you have a wider tail
I find that tail shapes are more in keeping with the outline of the board. For example, try putting a square tail on a gun. Or a pin tail on a fish. Not going to happen is it.
Quote:
Or a pin tail on a fish.
Fish have 2 pintails…
That’s not really a pin tail.
I am not disagreeing just supplying another way to think about it.
I agree that: Tail (shape) is more about Rail (line).
Cool, thanks.
Aloha Rick,
Be sure to check out what Stretch had to say about tails in his Surfline interview/feature thing. Pretty interesting in my opinion. I’m a huge fan of his shapes these days…
back in BK next week!
A.
Quote:
Proves my point and worse. Succinct, illustrated, but substitutes 2D pictures for what it lacks in precision and therefore meaning and therefore utility.
the real function behind the swallow tail (and hook tails)(I have been using these tails for 20 years…)
is to bring the back fin “backwards” to provide more bite, more “into” the water
with this you can reach tight turns in the pocket; no matter if you have a wider tail
i cut & pasted from Rich Harbour’s design page. please direct any content issues you may have to him.
but the real lesson is that any surfboard is a package deal…and no single factor of design will translate identically between different boards. it’s the synergy of a given planshape, rocker, foil, fins that makes a magic board. a basic understanding of the various factors is all it takes to start experimenting. after that, experience is the only thing will take you to the perfect shred sled.
Quote:
Aloha Rick,
Be sure to check out what Stretch had to say about tails in his Surfline interview/feature thing. Pretty interesting in my opinion. I’m a huge fan of his shapes these days…
back in BK next week!
A.
I did. Listen carefully. He’s talking release curve, and fwiw I think he’s totally right (Bill Thrailkill once said swallows were a gimmick, and I argued/felt like deleting planing area back there, if you were riding that area on your back foot, the shape of the deletion/release was important, but I’m less convinced now, although a good smart friend with a LOT of boards and years surfing says he can sink the corners better because of the points on his modern fish) … the issue gets a little vague when Stretch elucidates, I think.
http://www.surfline.com/surfnews/photo_bamp.cfm?id=10040&ad=1
Guy’s studio (correct term, I think) is amazing.
Yeah I got the address you got it from, and I didnt mean offense toward you–sorry if irritation resulting
You take next wave
greg
Amazing almost doesn’t cover it for the Stretch studio/factory. It’s immaculate, huge, and beautiful. The people there are incredibly nice, and the turn around time for boards is really, really fast. At least in my experience. When I’m not riding my own shapes, it’s gonna be his… The custom that I got from him this winter is the best board I’ve ever ridden. Hands down.
(((What do you think about the channels? )))
My theory is that tail shape most directly influences surface area and tail volume. If wider tails are harder to turn, you can reduce the area by putting in a swallow, which keeps the width and straigtens the outline. Same with those crazy battails, crescent tails, etc… they reduce tail surface area but maintain the width and outline curve.
Rounded pins have the least area, so they penetrate the water more when weighted. This gives control in larger surf, and flows well into narrower shapes with more parablolic outlines.
Squares and squashes are really middle-of-the-road tail shapes. The corners add area (compared to rounded pins) and work will with a slight hip to bring down the width rapidly and straighten the outline from the fins back to the pod.
But like the others have said, you have to put that tail shape into the context of the rest of the design, including bottom contours, rail edges, and rocker.
…wtf was that…
Love them. They feel really good in the hand, especially when duck diving. Helps you get a secure feeling when you grip the board by the rails. I’ve heard speculation on their effects on performance (flex, strength, etc.), but I can’t tell if they make a big difference. It’s such an advanced board with so many different design elements that are new to me. The “love handles” just feel good. They look like a bitch to glass though…
It would be nice if, after you cut and pasted from my site, I got credit.
Rich Harbour