The board that cheap built?

General Discussion
1

Hi all, new to the forum (I’ve spent ~18 hours in the past 3 days reading up in the forum and surfersteve among other places).

First off, I’d like to apologise for the long first post! I’m looking at taking my first stab at making board, and as my first attempt (and because I’m a poor student who would like to extend his quiver) it would be nice to keep the cost as low as possible

The plan is XPS foam, 1/8 ply sandwich and a mix of polyester and epoxy resin.  I don’t know if my idea would work, but I have all the stuff in my garage.  I’m all for unconventional thinking, and I’ll have lots of idle time over the holidays to monkey around with this project

Any input on if this, including if you think this is a terrible idea (particularly for a first attempt) would be appreciated

The plan:

Step 1: Blue Dow XPS I have 1.5" panels.  Was planning on gorilla gluing two panels together with weights on it to put the rocker in the board

Step 2: Cut out outline/shape board (wont get into too much detail)  Was planning on doing either a bloated fish or a not so mini simmons (want something fast/loose with some volume, ~6’8).  Wasn’t planning on doing much (or any) concave.  (fish a bad idea due to glassing around corners?)

Step 3: this is where things get funky (I’ve made a picture in case I fail at articulating my thoughts):

I have some epoxy (west systems), ~maybe 15 to 20 oz, and about a quart and a half of polyester resin.

-The plan was to do a layer of glass with epoxy around the rail (use 4 oz tape?)

-Glue down the 1/8 mahogany ply wood top and bottom (gorilla glue or epoxy) overlapping the wood onto the glass already wrapped on the rails. (garbage bag full of sand on top of it)

-Do the fin boxes

-From there lay down one(?) layer of glass on the plywood (top and bottom).  4oz using polyester resin (have lots), overlapping a bit (inch?) onto the epoxy.

-Wrap another layer of glass around the rails lapping onto the layer of polyester.

Obviously that’s just the annotated verision, but I’m wondering sevral things:

Is mixing the use of polyester and epoxy like this a bad idea? (delamination etc…)

Am I going overboard with the construction?  The plywood is cheap (free) as its just hanging out in my garage, in lieu of buying enough epoxy to glass the entire board sufficiently just glass on foam.  Not sure how much glass should go on the rails and onto the ply, and if lapping/alternating epoxy/polyester would work.

2

Where are you located?

What you just described seems like just about the most if not THE most difficult way to go about things. But, you’ve got most of the stuff laying around so, go for it.

Then again, there are much easier yet somewhat more expensive alternatives.

Where are you located?

Location, location, location…

3

hey stevo

 

Crisp is right! the amount of time you will waste on this, it might be worth buying a bit more epoxy and use the ply to make a rocker table to get your shape better instead of putting weights on the blank.

I use xps alot and love the performance feel of this material in a blank. Need to make sure you scratch up the sheets when glueing and glassing.

if you have the materials free… have a go and see what happens.

4

You’re going to have a really hard time trying to form 1/8" ply wood onto the shape without a vacuum bag.  In fact IMHO the results may be disastrous and you will have wasted a lot of materials.  It’s hard enough getting 1/40" veneers to form over the compound curves of a surfboard with a vacuum bag.

Also, when you make the blank trying to put rocker in during the glue up phase using weights, I’m pretty sure you will experience what is known as “spring back.”  That is- you weight the board until it has, say, 4" of rocker and when the resin sets and you take the weights off you find you have only 2-1/2".  Rocker is so critical to a board’s performance that I take measures to ensure i get my desired rocker (I have experience with spring back).

Amyways, if you’re doing it for the learning experience you have fun, and in the end anything surfs, even coffee tables!

5

Can you not cut the top and bottom rockers into the foam block once glued? LLilbel gave good advice. Think about it for a moment. The foam will ALWAYS be under tension with your rocker method and with that it becomes a variant. If the foam block is cut for your rocker it will remain static and no opposing forces will be in play. Way better method to pre-cut the foam. Once the lamination begins to break down, the blank will begin to move under the extreme forces you will be subjecting it to. Hope this makes sense...Good Luck.

6

Hey Chrisp, I’m in Victoria, BC.  Where’s the fun in taking the easy route? :stuck_out_tongue:

I’m in no way opposed to cutting the rocker out of the foam, I just read about that method somewhere on here and thought it may be easier., especially using that heavy of a ply, since I can set the board up again with the rocker while gluing the top and bottom layers of ply (which I was thinking would help solidify it).

The reasoning behind using the wood is to add strength/ding resistance, particulary because I’ve read this foam is prone to delams, in addition to being a barrier betwen the foam and polyester, allowing me to use leftover amounts of resin. (And because I kiteboard as well, and would like to make some surfboards for that, which need way less rocker, but need to be considerably more durable. A normal surfboards good for maybe 10 sessions before its fit for the dumpster)

I assume there are no other alternatives to PU foam for use with Polyester resin?  I’d definitely like to make my first few boards with cheaper materials until I get some semblance of an idea of what I’m doing, instead of burning through $150 or $200 of epoxy for every board (I’ve already started looking for broken/damaged boards I can use as donors)

7

hey good to see you have been seaching sway's  for info... but I would agree with the other guys. If you really keen on shaping a nice board. spend the cash and get good supplies. then take your time shape it slow, ask lots of questions as some of the guys on here have been doing it a long time and really now there stuff. start simple, take photos post them and people will be really happy to point you in the right way 

trust me I tryed a few boards a bit like what you are thinking of and there really did not work that well I ended up spending more than I would have if I bought some UV cure poly resin and a pu blank

any that just my 2 cents, I keen to see what you end up shaping

welcome to sways

 

antony

8

Look up the posts from Oneula and me. We have done this many times.

1/8" plywood over Blue Dow = heavy, I know from experience, but it will be very strong.

How good are you at knowing what the end result should look like? If you know what it should look like in the end, you should be able to do it.

Gorilla glue will not hold the rocker firmly like epoxy will. I would think about cutting the outline an inch or inch and a half narrower and gluing on foam rails with gorilla glue after the sheets are glued up. It will be easier to make nice rails. Do it as soon as the rocker is set to lock it all together.

Stick with epoxy resin and not poly when you glass. You can just glass the rails then just do a coat of resin over the wood without glass, but it won’t be as strong. Put in a vent.

9

I think it was some of your posts I originally came across actually. I’m not too concerned with weight, I’d rather have durability I ride alot of rocky shore break and one of the spots it isnt uncommon for logs to be floating around in the surf (and its not uncommon for me to be out in ugly wind, so a little extra inertia in the board is appreciated)

I’ve was thinking I might see if I cant find some 1/16 mahogany or something similar, as it would be easier to bend to the countours (1/8 is only ~10 bucks for a 4x8 sheet locally so I dont see that being a bank buster if i can find some) (and could double up if need be). 

How much strength does the wood equate to without glass on top of it? (ie 2 layers of 6 oz)  I like that sound of just glassing the rails and a coat of resin on the wood (I’d have enough epoxy to cover that)

One other question, I saw someone using a method in one of the threads, but I cant remember which one now:  Are there any pros or cons to cutting the foam into strips and assembling it like a wood board? ie get 2 or 3 inch foam, cut it with a rocker template, then clamp and glue them together?  It seems like that may be a simpler way to get the basic shape (but would end up with ~7-10 glue stringers)

10

Personally, with the mis-match of things, I would take the XPS foam and make a blank that is square and flat.  Basically if you had a board that was 3" thick with 3" rocker and 1/4" at the nose and 1 1/2" rocker at the tail, I would make the whole thing (assuming 1 1/2" XPS sheets) 3 x sheets so, 4 1/2" thick and just plane the rocker and then use the 1/8" plywood for the stringer…  That would probably be easier. :slight_smile:

11

I reckon go for it ! Do it the way you want and youll learn so much as you go.

 Using all those materials you'll learn about compatability and shaping different densities.

 Go for Gold and keep us posted !!!

12

Been busy with school, so I’ve just been dreaming/scheming and have come to the conclusion i may be better suited to give that Zerovoc stuff a go for sealing the board pre-glass (also found some posts about latex paint to seal it up, but the zerovoc looks a little more reliable).

I also discovered mini simmon’s on here which have piqued my interest, as well a they seem a bit easier to shape (flat bottomed/relatively squareish, no buttcrack).  Been playing around with aku shaper and think i’ve come up with a neat little board to give a go (5’10x23x3 , 56 liters :D)

Does anyone have any more thoughts on the zerovoc before I buy any?

That stuff is gonna cost me about ~50 bucks for a quart of it, whereas I can get a gallon for 120, from what I’ve gathered I could do a 1.4oz layer with that top and bottom to seal her, and then do 2x4oz top, 4oz bottom or something to that effect

Might try and make some keel fins and glass them on, but thinking i might be better off getting some proboxes to start off with, so I can worry about one variable at a time

13

XPS and poly - I tried that and it dissolved. Was thinking of something similar with a lamination of three 25mm pink xps sheets to get the rocker but then adding stringers and glassing with resin research epoxy. Yes it seems cheap but still do it right. Will be watching with interest - good luck!

14

I can get 3" (perhaps even thicker) blue dow from any big lumber or hardware store around here, so I dont even need to go crazy with glued up layers

I used to work with the pink and blue down all the time when I was installing windows in high rises and found that the blue foam is MUCH more resilient (you can bend it quite a bit further before it snaps, the pink seemed to crumble pretty easily).  I’m not done exams until the end of april so won’t really get cracking until then, just trying to plan, scheme and accumulate materials until then.

I’m also not sure if I’ll do this board first or the reclaimed urethane foam (from an old windsurf board, I have another thread about that one).  Either way they’ll both happen (I want to make some kitesurf boards, skimboards, and wakesurf boards as well) and I’ll make sure to document my attempts (and will probably be consulting you guys as well)