Howzit balsa, I think that acetone goes to the kidneys and catalyst goes to the liver. The really bad guy is styrene which is a cancer causing chemical. In the days before I wore gloves I would notice that after a day in the shop I was dehydrated and it seemed the only liquid that helped was beer. Acetone dehydrating the kidneys was the cause. Yes we do absorb chemicals and the big factor is the dirty acetone.since you also absorb any chemicals that were cleaned off in the acetone ie: styrene in the resin. Gloves and respirators always.Aloha,Kokua
Silly,
Thanks for the tip towards more info. Mike
I just happened to be doing a repair on a epoxy board the other day. I was holding the measuring cup ut the light to see the calibrations as I was pouring in the hardener. What I also could see was the vapor coming out of the hardener container. I might add that I could not smell the hardener.
There seems to be a lot of parinoia about poly. There seems to be little or none when it comes to epoxy.
Personally I take the same precautions when using either product.
platty.
g day kokua .
just a thought im using eps which has styrene in it
but ive read the vapours from hotwire a relativly harmless.
have you read heard anything about this…does EPS release styrene when you are working with it?
platty, im personaly not bagging poly im just sugesting to new users the dangers of certain chemicals.I would say the same thing about a lot perfumes and nail care products,insecticides or smoking or whatever you know .
im not gunna head down the pub for a pint of epoxy am I…
all im trying to say is if you get a bit of epoxy resin on you,it comes off easily with soap or white vinegar…
cheers all
I remember when an old time glasser was showing me how to laminate and put on fins (no gloves). When we were done he would tell me just wash your hands in the acetone…he said dont worry ive been dong this for years…needless to say ill never ever do that again.
…or the famous story of the (same?) old-time glasser who used to smoke while glassing, arguing that the heat of the cigarette burnt all nocive styrene vapors before they reached his lungs?
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Is there any data to support the hypothesis board builders die young? Studies with a large sample size?Mike
Aloha Mike
I don’t recall their names at the moment… but the group of surfing doctors from San Francisco, area collected data on all us North Shore surfboard maker guys back in the late 70s or so. I don’t know if they have continued to follow up. They have never examined me again.
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...or the famous story of the (same?) old-time glasser who used to smoke while glassing, arguing that the heat of the cigarette burnt all nocive styrene vapors before they reached his lungs?
Aloha Balsa
Those were stories of realy guys. I worked with both Bobby and Ronald Patterson, whom Thraikill mentioned, at Hobie.
Both worked without resperators and had done so for as long as I had known them. Bobby had laminated at Hobie about 14 years at that time and Ronald was a sander there for 9. Both had worked elsewhere, so these time frames at Hobie are only a slice of the whole picture.
Bobby would do about 15 to 18 boards a day, most with color in the lamination on both sides. The ventilation at Hobie was excellent but not using a resperator was crazy.
Ronald sanded as many as 25 boards a day without a dust mask of any kind. I used to trade him a quart of beer, for his lunch that his wife (what a sweethart) made him everyday. I don’t think she ever knew or caught us. She came close a couple of times though! She would have killed him…and I would have lost out on a excellent and very cheap lunch!
Both of these guys smoked the whole time they worked and they both often made statements about the cigarettes filtering the fumes and dust. I am sure others made the same statements but the Patterson brothers were legends in the industry and likely the source of the “famous story” you mentioned.
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Question for all you poly glassers:How do you dispose of your chemicals? Left over resin is one thing. I typically catalyze or make sure the leftover in the bucket has fully catalyzed before throwing away but what about your dirty acetone? Will most of it evaporate?
Aloha Emissions
I have a recycler. It was the first one in a surfboard factory in Hawaii, maybe in Hawaii in total. It vaporizes the solvents and recondences them into a reuseable form. It leaves a crispy pancake that I just throw in the trash as a hunk of solid reacted plastic.
For decades, backyard glassers on the North Shore, just dumped the dirty acetone on the ground behind their shops. I am not pointing fingers, just reporting history. Remember all those cool looking magazine pictures of Bright Red Hawaiian big wave guns? Can you imagine how much “Cadmium” Red pigment got dumped in the ground from making all those red boards! Mmmmm, Cadmium, there is some yummy stuff!
Just pray that we aren’t eating Papayas grown in some backyard glassers waste dump, that is now some families garden. There are and have been, hundreds of backyard shops on the North Shore, in hundreds of secret or lost locations. People are now living on top of those locations and few if any, have any knowledge of it.
I am a glasser for the largest maker of boards on the east coast and like everyone says cover up.Moldex makes a dust mask w/cabon cover good for prep and filters some fumes.I use latex throw away gloves in prep ie. mixing colors ,changing acetone etc.I wear these new tybex(sp) suits that alllow nothing through .Ventalate!!!Cut down fumes and skin exposure .Epoxy sucks!!I glass one board and I am sick the rest of the day !!! The people that were mentioned as dying , the Pattersons never wore masks and sucked cigs and I never saw Diff shape w/mask Caster don’t know . Hey Rick
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Quote:Question for all you poly glassers:
How do you dispose of your chemicals? Left over resin is one thing. I typically catalyze or make sure the leftover in the bucket has fully catalyzed before throwing away but what about your dirty acetone? Will most of it evaporate?
Aloha Emissions
I have a recycler. It was the first one in a surfboard factory in Hawaii, maybe in Hawaii in total. It vaporizes the solvents and recondences them into a reuseable form. It leaves a crispy pancake that I just throw in the trash as a hunk of solid reacted plastic.
For decades, backyard glassers on the North Shore, just dumped the dirty acetone on the ground behind their shops. I am not pointing fingers, just reporting history. Remember all those cool looking magazine pictures of Bright Red Hawaiian big wave guns? Can you imagine how much “Cadmium” Red pigment got dumped in the ground from making all those red boards! Mmmmm, Cadmium, there is some yummy stuff!
Just pray that we aren’t eating Papayas grown in some backyard glassers waste dump, that is now some families garden. There are and have been, hundreds of backyard shops on the North Shore, in hundreds of secret or lost locations. People are now living on top of those locations and few if any, have any knowledge of it.
Yeah…few years back one of the last factories directly accross the street from Sunset went out, must be 30 years of resin and other stuff in the ground there.
What are the byproducts of burning synthetic polymers?
(ie hot wiring.) Phosgene for one. AKA Mustard gas. Trench warfare WWI. Yikes.
I’ve known this since I was about 10 which would be 1965. Or perhaps earlier. I used a wire conntected to a 9v battery for welding and cutting plastic and styrofoam to make model boats I made from scratch out of balsa and styrofoam. But I stopped when I read somewhere an artist was sculpting Stryofoam with a torch and died from phosgene exposure. Hotwiring surfboard blanks is somewhere between these two examples.
EPS blanks I’ve seen being professionally hotwired were in an industrial park bay with the garage doors open and a commercial fan blowing across the work area and out the door. And for personal protection the worker had on a mask of some sort.
Please cut and paste the link for more info.
I remember that factory across from Sunset Beach. That was Ed’s (Country Surfboard) old place. It wasn’t the safest and healthiest place to work. Ed made my board for several years. I was young and never considered the health and environmental issues. My eyes are wide open now. Thanks for the info.
Howzit J.Troy, One very dangerous material that hasn't been brought up is Q-sel. It is very dangerous and when mixing it you should wear a dust mask. The powder is really toxic to your lungs and doesn't get expeled from them once you've inhaled it. Read an article years ago about how it can literally coat your lungs and there goes your breathing. I had a bad scare one time when Fiberglass Hi sent me a lb in the mail and when I opened the box and pulled the bag out it was torn and I got a face full of it. This also applies to when sanding it on a reapair. Aloha,Kokua
Howzit Bill, I remember seeing the pics of Ron sanding with no mask and a ciggie in his mouth, but at least it seemed that he did the sanding outside which would be the best ventalation possible. My sanding room is set up more like a shaping room but has good natural ( trade winds ) flow and blower ventalation. Before I start sanding I blow out the room, I shut the door and wait 5 minutes and when I open the room there's no dust left except for on the floor. Aloha,Kokua
Microscopically I think sanded qcell would be the worst. Tiny broken beads with jagged edges can’t be good for lungs.
Howzit Wildy,Very true, but most people have the good sense to wear a mask when sanding but don’t when pouring it into resin to mix.Aloha,Kokua
Phosgene? Really?
I have to do some more research.
I don’t have a bookmark, but when I was searching for NiChrome wire for my hotwire, I found a link from a hobby site to a DOW chemical site that aid that in the low temperature range (somehwere over 100 farenheit, e.g. hotwiring) that the fumes released were hydrocarbons, the same as from wood burning. It was when the EPS is actually burning (flaming) which is a significantly higher temp, it then released benzene and other nasties.
As for resin, I would use all the precautions possible. I am using RR epoxy and because of the climate (temp and humidity) where I am I can’t always just have the doors and windows open. I noticed today that there are enough vapours to give you a kind of buzzed feeling and a little nausea. Am ordering an amine rated cartridge ASAP.
When I was younger I helped my dad occasionally in his furniture restauration shop, stripping antiques with paint stripper before re-finishing them. I am sure that my brain cell count was reduced and my cancer risk elevated by it. I now try to take every step possible.