The day is coming soon...

Industry Talk
1

I just got back from the surf expo in Orlando Florida and wanted to post a few of my observations as it pertains to foam in the U.S. and the industry in general as a result. None of this is meant to aggravate or insult anyone, but I am going to give my frank and personal opinion on what I think will happen in a very short time.

I don’t think any foam maker is going to be able to fill the need in poly and what I saw at the show and the numbers I heard thrown around on production makes me feel even stronger that though poly boards will not go away, but they will no longer be the state of the art as they once were. I think Walker and others will be able to supply many of those dealers they have been selling foam to prior to Clark closing and may even be able to step it up a reasonable amount, but I just don’t see it being enough.

Can the foam from Argentena, Brazil, South Africa, Australia keep up with demand? I personally don’t think on any large scale they can and many will struggle with the sure to find their way in the process gremlins.

As for Epoxy: One thing that really sticks out to me is how far behind this tech. California glassers (at least the ones that produce major amounts of surfboards) are. I didn’t see anything remotely on par with the best from the East coast. Thats not crowing, nor is that gloating. I am simply stating a fact. Many of the worlds best craftmen live in California so I know it’s a matter of time, but they have been almost exclusively poly for so long and to me seem to be not so keen on new tech. I remember many glassers turning their nose up to sun cure resin when it first came out because of the small learning curve. From what I have been told by shapers who have mastered the process of not only glassing styro, but producing blanks from it, is that it’s curve is not a small one and there are issues that need to be learned to get it right.

Customers are not going to be willing to wait through to many mistakes, because there are other alternatives. The guys in California are smart guys and have led the industry and they will get if figured out. However the one factor that I think many shapers and surfers are overlooking is, “TIME”

In business cash flow is everything, and shortly, when whats left of the blank inventory runs out; the other foam makers, boardbuilders who are depending upon weekly cash flow with low profit, and back yard guys barely making on 4 or 5 boards a week are going to be in panic. Still, it will be figured out, but who will be able to survive the stretch in between that time when supply runs very low to the time when some sharp person figures out the answer?

Epoxy works because a shaper can be completely self supplying and independent, but even that will not work for everone.

The day is coming soon I think and it could be a day of reckoning for some…

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As more of an outsider looking in at the moment, I see a lot of sense in your words.

It will be interesting to see the way the industry in general, particularly Aus and Usa, absorbs and adapts through necessity.

What will be even more interesting is the design change that will take place. The people who have used and redesigned around styro/epoxy may have a headstart.

Imagine the possisbilities when a lot of experimentation gets played with by boardmakers discovering new limits. I think this will be an exciting time, even as an observer.

I am also one who tends to believe that the ones who rest on their present systems should watch out for more experimental people who may rapidly overtake them. Swaylocks is full of them.

Have fun you guys. Almost tempts me back to the coast, but I still haven’t found out where would tempt me yet.

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Howzit Wildy, After talking to 2 of my shapers today I was informed that there are 2 already paid for containers full of blanks on the way from Austrailia that will be here by the end of Febuary. We have Russell Lewis to thank for this because he is an Aussie with the right connections there and he is going back at the beginning of Febuary to do some surf coaching and set up future shipments for us. We were laughing that soon there will be a glut of blanks here,to many blanks and not enough shapers, that will be a kick ass situation.Aloha,Kokua
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Being an Aussie, I, and many others I’m sure, never really realised the Clark situation in the Usa as far as bulk blank manufacturing and distribution goes.

From what you say Kokua, certain pockets of the industry like yours, once organised with alternative blank delivery, will probably not be effected too much.

And the Australian pu blank industry will roll on as usual. And the pu boardmaking industry in Aus will continue as usual, probably without even a hickup.

Being a bit of an experimenter in the past, I know if I was making boards for myself right now they would still be experimental, but more likely epoxy/styro/sand/vac etc. That’s just me.

Now I’m living in the Usa, inland unfortunately for the while, I feel a certain excitement is understandable amongst boardmakers here, particularly the ones who are willing and want to see change in direction.

Being forced to do it is probably not their first choice, but in the long run American boardmakers who are forced to make the change will reap the benefits.

With regard to high performance shortboards, I sort of feel sorry for the Aussies who don’t change or adapt, as they will eventually be left in the dust. And I know most Aussie boardmakers feel they are on top of the game.

The game is changing. I hope you all win.

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i think its fair to say , the real answer is somewhere in between …

all the pro urethane guys say , there will be more foam than we know what to do with …

i sat in both those meetings , im sure others also totalled up the output of those who say what they intend to produce …

ok so if everyone does what they say they will do , then it will still be cutting a fine line , in 3 to 4 months time …

i asked alot of urethane guys , what they are doing for blanks , rich harbour said he still has 150 in stock …

another said , he had 2 , and not likely to get his hands on anything urethane for at least 6 weeks …

plenty of florida manufacturers were already doing eps/epoxy along with urethane anyway , so have leaned into epoxy/eps to keep the flow …

personally i was blown away by some of the florida epoxy boards , if there wasnt a sign on some boards saying “EPOXY” i wouldnt have been able to tell the difference just from looking , until you pick it up and squeeze , then its obvious , when its lighter and stronger and doesnt crackle under your thumbs …

the florida sima meeting was like the gathering of the grand poobahs , with poopee being the only topic …

the next day after the meeting bill bahne picked up one of my boards after just watching Nev trampoline on it , he turns to gary linden and says " o shit , i think were using the wrong technology " as he picks up a finished board lighter than a shaped urethane blank …

so it was refreshing to see the alternatives get some podium space at the san diego meeting …

my personal opinion …

the technology available today ,puts urethane foam right where clark left it along with the moulds …(ive seen the photos)

yes were saved , containers are on the way …

you guys are screwed believing a bunch of start up foam builders can save the day …

somewhere in between those last 2 comments lies the facts …

the san diego sima meeting was thick with atmosphere , in contrast to the pied pipers and those being lulled by the soothing music in florida …

i could see greg struggling for words , after being asked politely to tone down the message and keep things positive , i knew he wanted to say so much more …

then mctavish gets up and says , there is no future in urethane , if you want to build lighter and stronger boards then eps and epoxy is the answer , in 5 minutes he delivered a speech that packed so much logic and understanding into common language , conveyed to the audience like a professional public speaker …

who could possibly argue with a figure as respected as bob in the surfing industry , he said , what so many wanted to say , but somehow coming from bob it came out as a logical unoffensive clear message , pointing to a cleaner future …

nev took the floor and publicly stated hes done with urethane , that he will never make another urethane board …

after that comment , and others from curtis hasslegrave and a reporter , the mood in the room was intense …

sitting side by side one guy indignant , confused , resentful, uncertain , the other estatic , positive , confident and free to keep progressing …

in one camp you had real industry leaders , seasoned professionals with experience to match ,in the other you had a bunch of total novices new to the industry with no real clear answers , except the safari guys from south africa , who had a plan and real experience with urethane …

while sima says it has no interests in promoting one technology over another , anyone at the poobah convention in florida would have been left thinking no other alternatives possibly exist …

i could see an interesting dicussion developing after the meeting between sima and greg , rick carol etc who never even got the chance to address the audience …

the mentality was blank and one eyed , i had to leave as it seemed pointless to even try and reason …

so to see a real broad range of industry technologies and alternatives having the floor in san diego , gives sima a very positive posistion …

i truly believe those behind the wheel at sima , just really werent aware of all the viable alternatives before the florida meeting and just perusing the various booths and products would have been a real eye opener as to what the future holds post clark …

the day is coming …

solo , bummer i missed you , unless you came by incognito ?..

regards

BERT

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Hello Solo,

          I hope all is well with the new addition to the family, I think you have a good point about florida and east coast in general being far ahead in the learning curve of epoxy construction. I am not sure why but it seems that a few people had open minds a and some foresite . It took me some time to cross over but it is still a tough sell to many people here in N.J. Luckly we have someone in this area that is a real craftsman with epoxy construction ,but they are still few and far inbetween . I still love the beauty of fine shaped pu blank ,but I can't deny the performance of a well crafted eps/epoxy either. I hope the future has a place for both.
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nicko,

whre in Jersey, and who is the craftsman

thanks

Drew

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Paul Baymore aka Fly Surfboards,Belplain,N.J.

I may be talking to him this weekend .I will try to get you a phone number if you are interested

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No worries.

Don’t know him personally but have several frineds that do and all speak very highly of him. His shop actually used to be only a few minutes from where I ocne lived. then he moved to souther jersey and started commercial fishing.

But I guess he still makes boards

appreciate it thogh.