Bigbrother:“Kokua, for me and the majority of the mfgrs it was about the INTEGRITY of the company and the system. That was one of the main factors why I choose not to continue with FCS, I have not offered the FCS system for a few years now. I refuse to even have an FCS option, if the customer wants FCS they will have to go somewhere else”.
I agree, and I personally don’t take any company that uses them as credible boardmakers.
Howzit Nels,First I don’t understand the Bros and Hos response,sorry
simply put - surfie version of the “old boys network” where who you know may mean more than what you know or how you take care of business.
I’ve always stressed good customer relations and service in my businesses and it has always paid off.
Absolutely right, but come to Surf Central and I bet any Californian on this board could take you to a shop and let you see a retail donkey show that could reduce you to tears, perhaps tears of laughter.
As for the older reps,it seems that FCS in Cal takes the young surfers from their ware house and promote them to Reps with out any sales backgrouind in their resume. Maybe older isn’t exactly the right word, should have said expierenced instead. But in a lot of case expierence comes from time on the job which means the person is probably older
I actually respect that kind of promotion from within. Obviously that only works with knowledgeable management who provide proper training. You are also correct in saying management needs to be informed of problems with service levels.
In todays job market employers are looking for more expierenced workers so they are hiring older people who have just that
Beyond Wal-Mart that doesn’t seem to be too widespread on the mainland. Most businesses seem to want less experienced, younger workers so they don’t have to pay them as much, they don’t cost as much in benefits, and so they don’t have employees with experience and perspective who may refuse to do unethical or outright stupid things. One “problem” both in contemporary surfing business as well as business in general is that economic times have been so good for so long that people can afford to lose business - there will be more coming along. Nobody in the surf business right now has to “work” for the kind of sales that would have been inconceiveable in, say, 1991.
By the way if we on Kauai are living in another century why would you want to come here. Are we to far behind or tof ar ahead. Aloha,Kokua
Too far behind or too far ahead? Doesn’t matter…it sounds nice! Definitely not bagging. At a factory I worked at six or seven years ago my counterpart in the quality division got written up by a human resources monkey for saying in a disciplinary meeting with one of his employees that the guy “didn’t use any common sense”. That is the kind of mentality many of us have to deal with all the time. Avoid it if you can.
Howzit Bug Brother, A couple of years ago My FCS rep and I were talking about creating a job as a demo installer who would go around to their accounts and make sure they were installing the system correctly. I know for a fact that they came real close to canceling 1 companies account due to to improper installation which led to many system failures. Come to find out the installer was coming in at night to do his thing. Well his thing also included a 12 pack and some herb. Needless to say he was fired and their failure rate fell to almost zero. I guarantee my system installations on all systems and I haven’t had to repair any of them. Here in Hawaii we should see more failue due to larger and more powerful wave conditions but it seems that the mainland has a higher failure rate. When ever I see a problem with a system I bring it to the companies attention and they are always concerned and listen to what I have to say. What they do with the info is up to them. while talking to an employee of FCS in Aust. about a demo person he told me our rep should be doing just that, fine and dandy but our rep was also the bookkeeper and helped in the warehouse also, with no extra pay for the extra work. How did FCS figure he would have the extra time to check up on the installers. I was 1 of the first people to use the Probox system because one of the owners is a freind who I’ve mentored on board repair and lamination, plus he knew I would give him any feedback on their system. On the first install I came across some problems and called them up and they were glad I did, they have now addressed those concerns and their product is better now.
I have no problem with FCS's system but I do have a problem with the companies integrity when it comes to how they treat their accounts, that's why it's a shame they are letting go of really good employees. I can only wish you had had the pleasure to work with the Hawaii reps since they were/are the Bomb and were more concerned with keeping their accounts happy instead of collecting commissions. Once again this thread is not about the system but about the company eliminating our local distributor which means we will have to deal with the same lolo reps you mainland companies did or do still. I am impressed with the fact that Tom from RED-X and Robin from ProBox and Clyde from Edge Fins monitor Swaylocks because they want first hand feedback on their systems. We have a saying : when every body says things are running great that's the time to look for problems. Aloha,Kokua
kokua, maybe it’s just a number difference between the amount of boards. But you are the only person I have ever heard of that has claimed that he has never had a failure. I have had boards that have failed that have been installed by the FCS demo installer. Maybe you should show them how to install! LOL! All I can say is it’s not rocket science and even if you follow to a T. it’s still much more susceptible to failure. Beleive me the failure rates have dropped to virtually nill. And when we do have a failure its due to the rider hitting hard on something. With the FCS the majority of the problems had to do with the plugs being pushed through. And also the failure of the plugs with larger fins that put a much more side torque load like the fiberglass twin fin. All these plugs were placed in correctly. Why do you think they are in total redesign if the system is so great?
Howzit Nels,Now I see what you meant bout Bros and Hos. If you want quality you hire the best person for the job not your best friend, unless he is the best qualified. I've seen the circus and it aint pretty, was in a shop in H.B. years ago to buy some surfacing agent for a repair and waited while the saleman ran his spiel by a kid and his mom about why they should buy a new board instead of a used board. When it was my turn I asked him for S.A. and he gave me a strange look and said what's surfacing agent,duh. Promotion from within is great but you have to have the right person in the first place to train and if there is no one you go to the outside to find that person if need be. to address the job market subject, my father was the head of the staff writing dept. for Douglas aircraft for years. After he retired Douglas could not find a person qualified to fill his position so they rehired him as a private consultant and gave him a 50% raise over his previous salary because they were so happy to get him back. A lot of those Wal-Mart employees are semi retirees who just want a job that offers some benefits and/or some extra income. It's not like you need a lot of expierence to say "Welcome to Wal-mart have a nice day". Being a surfboard builder who cares about quality work I always have as much work as I want but I still give every board the same quality construction it deserves. We all know that when business is bad shops close and when it's good more shops open due to supply and demand but over the years there are shops that endure the bad times and probably will continue to do so, why,because of quality products and good service. An example is here on Kauai costco is tring to get a place and people here are more concerned about the Mom and Pop stores with great service and family feeling instead of cheap prices. The situation about your friend is a great example of small mentality,I guess that's why I have always been self employed. Aloha,Kokua
Fiberglass Hawaii in Santa Cruz dropped FCS and their products a little while ago (maybe a month). They are by FAR by FAR the largest distributor in the area.
Howzit BigBrother, Yeah FCS was asking too much of their system to handle the big fins and they should have done some R/D to figure out just how much strain the plugs could take. I think the reason I don't have failure is I do some tweaking when I do my installs which adds some extra effort and I don't have a boss telling me to hurry up and get those plugs in. I've watched in horror as installers don't wipe the plugs with acetone or pull the jigs 5 minutes after the resin kicked or even worse when they don't make sure the holes are cleanly done which are all factors for failure. In fact the first installation I saw was done wrong and that made me very concious about doing it right. I do remember 1 customer who's board I built that was bummed when 1 of his $50 carbon lite TF2 fins broke off but on the other hand he was stoked the plugs held just fine. FCS has been working on those new plugs for a few years now and the big question is will they still be around by the time they are done and if they are and the system is better will it be to late for people to try due to previous problems. Might I add that I do ceratin personal tweaks on every type of fin system I install to insure better quality, but once again these take a little extra time and a lot of factories don't have the extra time. Aloha,Kokua
Howzit blakestah. Fiberglass Hawaii on Oahu never even carried them. They wanted a system that didn't have a company in Hawaii so they went with O'fishl and then added Futures. What I find funny is I understand you can get the futures cheaper at F.H than you can from Future. One of my main shapers is Mark Angell from S.C. and he loves FCS and their K2.1 fins. Have you tried the ProBox system yet, I understand Mark turned Doug Haut on to it and they are using it now on some boards. Aloha,Kokua
Ive noticed the same thing, that the cost of futures products are cheaper from F.H. than futures themselves. I took a look at the cost of the jig and router from futures and it was about $20 cheaper at F.H., the fins are also about $20-$30 cheaper than surfshops.
M,
…Good thing I figured out a way to make my own plugs …fairly easy and inexpensive.I only make center plugs but the same process could be easily used to make side jobs.I can also change the color of the plug as well…well kinda ???
Kokua,
…If you are interested in the howz tuz on them let me know.Herb
Howzit Herb, I'll get back to you with a PM about the plugs. You truely are the McGyver of surfing.Aloha,Kokua
That’s a big complement coming from you.
…The ideas just keep rollin’ in.
…The lay off really let me explore like I use to uninhibited…outside the box…got some innovations that should ROCK!Herb
…Why me? …and my Creator replies…Why Not !
Howzit Herb, Sometimes you need to clear the cobwebs and changing your routine is a good way to do just that. It's like people who work for a living don't have enough time to figure out how to make money. I get some of my best ideas in the shower, the problem is remembering them. I need to write them down as soon as my brain thinks them up, but then I need to remember where i wrote them down. It's like I tell people my moon rises in chaos. Speaking of showers I had an idea for a shower curtain that had holes on both ends, we were going to call it the double time shower curtain because after the ring holes get ripped out you can just reverse it and use the new set of holes.Ah the mind is a mysterious thing.Aloha,Kokua
Hey guys - I guess the glassers over here for Channel Islands must have some secret install for FCS as I’ve seen Slater win at Teahupoo and Tavi w/o busting out the boxes. I’ve seen good and bad install jobs from 20 different shops and it no system is fool proof. I read and earlier entry about the install guys drinking and smoking … must be everywhere and not just Hawaii
Based on an order received today, Fiberglass Hawaii Santa Cruz is currently ordering and distributing FCS products.
Greeneboards - Try calling the FCS Office (Surf Hardware Hawaii) at 808-676-3027 and discussing your needs with our local rep. We are currently restructuring our warehouse, showroom and offices and will be maintaining both offices and manufacturing inventory in Hawaii with primary shipping from San Diego. Currently all qualified manufacturing orders are free freight (which, come Sept. will be 4 days vs. 2 days), but of course all well managed and dialed-in manufacturers maintain 7-10 days worth of inventory … Best regard, Bryant
Howzit Bryant, I talked to Barney Friday and he was the one who told me that all the FCS inventory was going to be shipped to Cal in August. He said that there was a chance FCS would keep the Reps but all orders would be shipped out of Cal. Do you mean that Manufacturing inventory will still come from Hi. I have been doing business with FCS Hi. as a manufacturer (about 250 fins sets a year) for 8 years and never got free shipping. I know that retail orders done on the 3 month preorders get free shipping and a 15% discount, but the free shipping never applied to manufacturer orders. I told Barney I would be making an order this week so maybe he has some good news for me. Aloha,Kokua
Good afternoon … it’s 7:55PM and I’m starting to burn the midnight oil here in San Diego. Here’s a bit of the history…
Since it’s inception about 10 yrs ago, Surf Hardware Hawaii had been an independant entity ran by Rob Cribb. Since Rob left in September, the decision was made based on many factor to consolidate our shipping and management operations with San Diego where we have a 16,000sf facility. We will maintain both MFG and Retail reps on the ground in Hawaii with an office, showroom and “backstock” inventory. Our primary shipping will take place from San Diego although we can accommodate shaper/glasser emergencies from Oahu. This enables FCS to continue on it’s original path of innovation. On that note, I encourage you to get a set or two of the new PC plugs from Barney.
In regards to freight to Kauai, we’ll be assessing the history of Outer Island accounts and come up with a positive solution to keep you guys stocked and hopefully stoked on our service, products and pricing. Please feel free to call me directly at 858-300-2640 during business hours (San Diego) if you have any more specific questions.
Howzit Bryant, FCS in Hawaii has always use the USPS for interisland orders except for large products like Board bags which they use UPS for. Shipping USPS rates are the same all over the US so any products coming from SD via USPS should have the same rate to Kauai. I know that as of Friday the boys on Oahu wern’t sure if they would still be have a job. Glad to hear that we won’t be totally abandoned. Aloha,Kokua
One question for the Aussies is if FCS is no longer the big system in Aust then what is the system being used now?
I think fin solutions which basicly is a fcs rip off is now the biggest.