Howzit josh, That’s what I was wondering about. Feral Dave sent me a set a while back and have wanted a customer to try it. Have they gotten a larger selection of fins now or do people just use FCSfins in their boxes. Thanks for the update. Aloha,Kokua
Hi Kokua!
I think they still only have a basic set. Most I’ve seen have fcs fins in them. Here is a link.
http://www.southcoastfoam.com.au/finsystems.html
Catchya.
Howzit kokua? wow, such news. Sorry to hear it for you. You have always supported the system one hundred percent. As far as the reps go, John the SD rep for FCS has a great rep here. While he may not have the board building background i feel is necessary to be an efficient fin co. rep, he genuinely cares, has a great attitude, and everyone likes him. I’d hire him if he ever quit. He’d have to go through resin 101 with me, but he’s halfway there, and it wouldn’t be that hard. I also have to agree that your probably the only one i’ve ever heard of that has no failures. Are you installing them with quickset epoxy or sumpin’? The waves at flatrock or middles of the bay or kalihiwai eat boards for lunch. Found it interesting that you’ve had no probs amidst such power. Oh well, it’s probably a big mistake for them to pull out of hawaii, but it wouldn’t be the first one they’ve made. Be lying if i said i wasn’t laughing about them pulling out because we’re just pulling in. I waited many years to choose a rep for hawaii, sifting through many applicants including a rep for Rusty, and a former pro surfer with some deep connections there. Opted for a guy that shapes boards for a living, grew up on the island, has a great attitude, and last but not least, understands the basics or polyester resin, and construction of surfboards. You have to be able to speak a board builders language if you expect them to take you seriously. Most fin system reps cannot. He is a local boy from hawaii kai that grew up under the mentoring of Marshall Crum. He learned old school style (the hard way) from Marshall. Same way I did under Bill Bahne and Tom Eberly. Training him was easy. He covers all of oahu, and has product in stock. He will also come to your shop or home and drop boxes in for you, and sell you fins. Anyone on oahu that needs him can contact me. His name is Chris. Pro box may have a problem with FCS’s patent that specifically descibes a 45 degree angled grub screw that contacts the “side” of the fin base. They will probably wait to sue until there is some money in the bank. Kokua, if you need a new product to promote, feel free to give me a shout anytime. Howz adjustable fins sound? Say hi to Rick Holt and Hambone for me eh? Thanks Jim
Hey Lokbox,
you know I’ve been watching this thread and hearing all the negativity directed towards California reps in general. I deal with over a dozen reps and some are as described above, but as you’ve pointed out John Foultz is by far the best rep out of all the vendors. What’s more ironic is that he grew up on Kauai, and still visits his mother twice a year. John strikes me as a guy who has a passion for what he does and he ALWAYS returns my calls/questions which to be honest is rare in the surf business. I can relate to the other side of this thread, as the frustrations when a supplier pulls back or makes receiving more difficult in a place where the reps do not seem to be up to John’s standards would have me pretty upset. Hopefully some creative solutions will emerge and production will keep flowing…
Quote:
Quote:One question for the Aussies is if FCS is no longer the big system in Aust then what is the system being used now?
I think fin solutions which basicly is a fcs rip off is now the biggest.
Hi Kokua,
FCS is still being used widely over here but it is by no means the main system anymore. I’m seeing more and more boards fitted with Speed Fins lately… some manufacturers are doing most of their boards in Speed Fins.
Check www.speedfins.com
I’m not sure that there is any 1 main fin system over here at the moment - there are about 5-6 main players over here right now and a few like OAM trying to break in also.
-Cam
Howzit Lokbox, I still stand behind FCS as a fin system, just am very upset with their decision to leave Hi. Is John the head rep for Ca.. I have heard that the main man is a good rep and older than the reps that work under him. As far as no plug failures go, I think it's due to good prep and some tweaking of the installation that works. I 've put them in kiteboards and tow boards with no problems. One thing I do is pre-mix the resin,pigment,milled fibers the day before instalation so all the little air bubbles disapate to leave a nice creamy mixture. It's possible that those little air bubbles might be a cause for some failures since air equals weakness. I guess that both lokbox and Future are making their systems more available to us which is great and I wish you good sales here. Aloha,Kokua
Howzit Plus One, Good to hear a good revue for a cal rep and wouldn’t you know it he’s from Kauai. Sounds like he’ cares about his customers and that is what makes our reps so great to work with. Hopefullt if we have to order through cal. we will get to deal with John. Seems that He should give some lessons to the other reps that have turned off other customers that tell of their problems. I got PM yesterday from an employee of FCS in Aust. accusing me of putting down the system and I told him that he needed to reread the posts because my gripe was not about the system just the fact they were leaving Hi… He went on to say that FCS is getting bigger and better and that the new owners are going to be more customer concious. He also said that there were a lot of bad rumors going around about FCS so I told him to first reread the posts then get back to me with the truth about what is really going on, that is if the bosses will let him without endangering his job. Aloha,Kokua
Howzit fish expert, The person from FCS who sent me a somewhat vicious PM yesterday seems to feel that FCS is still the number 1 system in Aust and will get even bigger. Since I don’t live there I can only get the info from you guys that live there. This person accused me of dissing the FCS system and I told him to reread the posts since he got it wrong. I never said a bad thing about the system only their decision to leave Hi… I also told him that I had been offered a rep job with a couple of other fin co’s but refused due to my loyalty to FCS. I’m waiting to see if he will respond to my reply to his PM. There’s now quite a few fin systems on the market and they are all work and it’s just up to the buyer to pick the one he wants. I like the fact that some of the co’s are designing their systems so that other systems fins work in their plugs/boxes. That’s a win/win situation for all the compatible systems. Aloha,Kokua
Hey Kokua, yeah John is a good guy. Not sure if he is the head rep or not, but he’s shown me respect over the years, which isn’t something one always receives from competitors. The fin biz isn’t the easiest thing for us involved. Designing it, then making it available everywhere is quite a challenge. Keeping up with an ever evolving industry keeps you on your toes for sure. But wer’e all trying very hard, and spending lots of money to make it happen, sometimes with little or no return. I know the hurdles that Clyde and John have gone through, and remember a talk we had years ago at his house in hanelei about how to “make it” in this industry. I didn’t want to be in their position facing the 5 year uphill battle that they were facing, having just gone through it myself.
Seems lots of people love to hate FCS, but if you look back they really did a thorough job at making their product available world wide, and the installation very simple. Many great surfers have done many incredible things on that system, and for that I commend them. Finding the right rep for the job is a daunting task. I don’t really think age has everything to do with a reps credibility, but it usually does mean they’ve been around a while. At the same time I know 18 year old kids that have more knowledge about boards than some 30 year veterans. Your install tricks help for sure. Installation can make or break any system, and keeping hundreds and hundreds of shops doing it right is a nightmare sometimes. It hurts when you put a bunch of time(like 6 months) into training someone, then they get it wired, only to return to the shop to find out he’s quit or moved on. Start over.
But oh well, this is our job, and if you care at all about longevity, you see that it gets done right. Some shops here have one guy installing 6 or 7 different systems, with 6 or 7 different routers and jigs. Keeping in mind that the shapes are ever changing, it’s not the easiest thing for them either. Aloha Jim
Howzit LokBox, I totally hear what you are saying, I really admire Clyde and John for thei decision not to involve big money to make their system a reality. And now we have the ProBox system which was designed and brought to reality by Mitch and Robin, and that’s 2 systems from a tiny island. I have to also commend all you guys that make systems since it is a tough market and a trendy one too. That’s why it’s so important to make sure there is as little failure as possible because when the system fails the blame goes to the maker not the real culprit the installe, I was asking my FCS rep once why they don’t have a person to go around and do demo installs and they thought it was a good idea but the head office thought that the reps should do it. Well at the time out manufacurer rep was doing 3 jobs, rep,bookkeeper and helping in the ware house so there was no way he could take on doing demo installs. What you said about trained employees is a big problem unless they take the time to train their replacement, which probably isn’t the case. You know what is kind of funny is we now have all these systems but when it comes to 10" fin boxes Bahne/fins unlimited have basically had a monopoly on them for years now. Aloha,Kokua
Yeah like 40! Bill Bahne is the godfather of fin systems. Most people would be suprised to find out that most systems for example future, red-x, ofish’l and a slew of others like the star system were redesigns of his earlier designs. When I took over Lokbox from fins unlimited, my decision weighed heavily on this phrase from Bill - " It’s the best thing i’ve designed in 45 years". With his help we’ve redesigned it a few times to make it even better. Rainbow fins stepped in to give us the variety of fins we wanted, due to fins unlimited scrambling to keep up with longboard fin orders. Aloha Jim
Howzit LokBox, Really like the boxes they are making now,especially with the raised lip on them. They are very easy to work with also, when I neededa 15" box they had them and sent me one within a couple of days of the order. I’ve also ordered pins for finbox fins and I like the fact that they are universal for fins fitting in the boxes. I don’t know if you’ve seen the box system FCS now makes but it’s pretty user friendly for installation with thier jig, But the box is a slightly different size so only their fins fit in it. Kind of like what the germans did in ww 2 but not exactly. The germans designed their weapons so theu could use our ammo in their rifles but we couldn’t use thiers in our rifles. Aloha,Kokua
Quote:
I was asking my FCS rep once why they don’t have a person to go around and do demo installs and they thought it was a good idea but the head office thought that the reps should do it. Well at the time out manufacurer rep was doing 3 jobs, rep,bookkeeper and helping in the ware house so there was no way he could take on doing demo installs. What you said about trained employees is a big problem unless they take the time to train their replacement
Since fin company guys appear to be watching this thread, might I suggest one solution for the demo install/training situation would be to hold occasional half day seminars where the process is demonstrated and the future installers do hands-on installations themselves under supervision/guidance. If the company does it then some of the competition animosity would be eliminated. This is no brainstorm as on a more basic level places like Home Depot show customers how to do pretty much anything in a series of free Saturday morning events.
To add to other earlier comments about surf company sales rep problems, there are of course many who do excellent work. While I don’t deal with surf companies much any more I have had periods where I did, and it was a shocker. In my case once (pre internet) I needed product and technical information which later was presented in various forms to hundreds of thousands of potential customers both on the potential retailer and consumer levels. Some companies wouldn’t even send basic line cards listing their products as I personally wasn’t going to buy anything or the publication I was working with was in Chicago. Others had people who knew so much that once they verified I was on the level I had everything I needed including product photos suitable for publication within a week- the only questions they asked me were my address and phone number to make sure I got what I needed. Surfing as a whole falls way behind the real world basic standards of business practices. The most successful ones are successful for really simple reasons, manufacturing or retail. Like when you get to surf shops…my God! Send the sales staffs to etiquette classes to learn some basic manners. Smiling and saying “hello” to customers - basic welcome - won’t kill them. Why a shop owner or manager would let a staff work with a lower level of enthusiasm than the average fast food franchise is beyond me - it’s money lost. But it’s not my money…
There seems to be a bit of confusion about FCS here. I thought I’d throw out a few things to try to keep the record straight.
FCS is not pulling out of Hawaii we’re simply restructuring the way we do business there. Like any business we must remain competitive in the marketplace.
Since no other fin company operates its own stand alone warehouse there this is probably not a surprising move. Bryant and his team here are busy working through all the details of providing bulletproof uninterrupted supply to the Hawaiian market at competitive pricing and taking care of the people who work there. If you are a board manufacturer in Hawaii, we’re looking to improve the way we serve you. We do our best everyday to provide good customer service to the industry. If you have any questions about the level of service you are receiving from FCS anywhere in the U.S. we want to hear from you. We’ll do our best to find the right solution. Please contact Bryant Leach or myself at 858 300 2640. We do not have a chance to monitor of this forum on a regular basis and would like to hear from you directly.
With regard to the strength of the Channel Islands installs and Kelly or Sunny winning multiple triple crowns and world titles on FCS: There is no magic install only the patented H pattern method that we recommend in our catalogs and on our web site. When done correctly it is 99% bulletproof. Any system is only as good as the install. The fact that ultra powerful surfers like Kelly and Sunny have had such success with FCS through hundreds of surfboards should be a clear indication of how strong the system is when it’s properly installed.
We are a business designed and run by surfers. As a company collectively we haven’t done everything perfectly. What we have done is create a whole new category of mainstream surfing products that help you get the most out of every surfboard and every session. Has it always been a bed of roses? No, but we work hard to deliver the best performance and the best value in the market. We have a lot of worthy competitors out there who have also worked hard to establish their products in this new marketplace. At the end of the day it’s all about surfing performance. If we can provide surfers and surfboard builders with a product that helps them get more performance (and have more fun) we have done what we’ve set out to do. Speaking for myself personally, I have a deep respect for our competitors. They’ve worked hard to get where they are. Hopefully we’re all in it for the same reason, to raise the level of surfing performance in the world, which is one of the best jobs anyone could ever have!
Aloha,
Tyler Callaway
FCS USA
Well, there you have it Kokua, straight from the man himself ! Howdy Tyler! 
Howzit LokBox, Nice reply from Tyler, I guess I finally got their attention with this thread. I have been in contact with one of the Aust reps and got the same reply basically. Hopefully they will now make sure that all the reps do their jobs like a good rep should, which will make things better for all cal shops. I also told the Aust rep about some of the little technical problems that have seemed to slip through the cracks and should be addressed. Alot of builders here would vent their problems here on Swaylocks when they should have gotten in touch with the company, that’s how I was taught to deal with these kind of situations. If they don’t know there is a problem they can’t fix it. I’m just glad that we will still be represented in Hawaii and that we got a response from the company about what their direction for the future is. I also want to commend you on your neutrality in this thread especially since you also in the fin system business. If you are ever on Kauai we should get together, just PM me and I’ll give you my Ph#, I live across the street from Tunnels. Aloha,Kokua
Well Kokua, the thing is, most of us fin guys are actually friends. I’ve known Tyler for years and years, and he has always treated me with respect as well. Alot of us have mutual customers, and i’d like to think that there is an unspoken rule of sorts that we don’t throw each other under the bus. 
That being said, it still doesn’t mean there won’t be a little prodding here and there. This country was built on competition, most of it friendly, some of it cut throat. I remember when I was young, my parents took me to Mcdonalds one day for lunch. I remember the sign out front, it said " Come have lunch with Ronald". Directly across the street was a Burger King. They had a sign that said " Why have lunch with a clown…when you can dine with a king" Lol! Cracked me up, and I asked my pops what’s up with that? He said competition boy! So I saw it early on. Competitioin keeps competitors on their toes, Keeps them constantly improving their products, and the end result is better products for all the consumers. We’d be lost without it.
I hear good and bad things about all the systems daily. Hard to deny Kelly’s reign of supremacy riding FCS, and as I mentioned earlier…all the others that use it and trust their lives to it. Teahupoo comes to mind. There’s an old saying - It’s hard to design something the first time, but way easier to improve upon it. I think that’s what the other systems are trying to do. FCS paved the way for removable fin systems, and we are all(including surfers) benefiting from their innovations.
You also have to remember that once your company gets to a certain size (global) it can just be impossible to completely redesign your product. We did our redesigning early on, and hopefully we can can continue moving forward with our current design without too many more changes. The new FCS plug looks interesting, and time will tell how it works out. I wish Tyler and the boys the best of luck! There’s plenty of business for everyone, and surfers being the individuals that they are, most will seek out the system that benefits their particular needs the best.
Will be on Kauai this winter, and definately will look you up for a surf. Funny thing, I was surfing trestles this last week and Bethany was out. The waves were ten foot faces. On one particular set we were side by side paddling out when a bomb landed right on both of us. When i popped out the back I was getting dragged a bit, and Bethany just slipped right through. I paddled up to her and said “OK how did you do that?” She said “I gots the death grip with my right arm these days!” Major inspiration that girl!!! Now I’ve surfed tunnels many times in my life, and i’m not gonna lie to you…I may think twice about paddling there again. Might just go over to cannons (like that’s any safer) just to tell myself i made an effort. Captain Zodiac warned me years ago about the sharks out there… Aloha Kokua
Howzit LokBox, Yeah Bethany is something else, I’ve known her parents since before they were married. Bethany won her division in the Pine Trees Longboard Surf Classic in 2004 only 6 months after the attack and we have hours of video of her. As a person who has owned several successful businesses I truely believe in competition and I’ve learned that quality and good customer relations are what can take a business to the top.
One of my regular customers surfs Tunnels every day and was out when Bethany was hit and he was out the very next day without any sightings. Tunnels is just one of the off ramps for the Shark freeway that runs from Kilauea lighthouse point to Nualolo kai at the end of the Napali coast. Cannons is another just as Hanalei Bay, Hideaways,Anni beach,wainiha,etc. so don’t let that keep you from surfing there. In fact one of the Shark programs had a bit on a girl having her leash attacked at cannons. I know I get the spooky feeling sometimes, especially since I was chased by a tiger at the Bay, but it didn’t keep me out of the water. Took a bad shoulder to do that and finally after 2 years I am able to swim again and am starting to paddle to get back in shape which is going to take a while since my 57 year old muscles need more time to retone. But I have a cataract operation to deal with in 2 weeks also. I’ve got a good captain Z / Shark tale. one of the boats is doing an evening cruise down the coast and right past the end of the road a goat falls off the cliff and the the captain tells the folks " thats Mother nature " well the next instant a shark comes up and grabs the goat and dives. Blew the people away and the captain was speechless at that point. Aloha,Kokua
Lol! Good story! Yeah The good captain told us one day at tunnels “If you guys knew how many sharks were under you while you’re surfing out there…you’d never surf there again!” I said “Really?” He said “hundreds…all species…big ones…small ones…friendly ones and hungry ones!” Staggered me a bit. The next day some sponger gets his leg bitten off surfing rifles just below the knee. The day after that a guy nets 3 baby hammers off Waicocos, then a couple days later we’re surfing the bay and Titus and Terry chun go paddling by us at about 40 mph yelling “tiger brah” . I was like “OK” there’s a few landlords arounds these parts. This was in october. Billy Hamiliton tells us "If you don’t like sharks…don’t come to hawaii in october. Funny how you learn stuff…
Howzit LokBox, We have a friend who used to shark fish just outside the Bay and after over 600 catches he figured it was a losing cause and quit. The real landlord is a tiger who is close to 18 feet long and cruises the area around hideaways and the point. Did you ever see the picture of the shark bill caught after bethanys attack, if not I will scan and post a picture manana, They checked the teeth marks with the hole in bethanys board and it was a perfect fit, guess he was checking the pickings at the bay. Don't forget Middles, definitly shark country. Aloha,Kokua