The experiment continues...

What I’m doing is making another hollow board… The frame and skins / rails will be made out of Home Depot blue Styrofoam… The “stringer” was planed to 1/4" and carbon fiber laminated on both sides…Then drilled out… The cross ribs were planed to remove the slick factory finish “skin”… I think it needs some roughness to get a good bond, even with epoxy… The cross ribs are laminated on both sides with plain fiberglass, and epoxy…Then drilled out… The outside rails are two layers of 3/8" Styrofoam laminated with a single layer of fiberglass/epoxy between them… I added another layer of foam between the cross ribs to keep them in place… The outside of the rails is laminated with a single layer of carbon fiber/epoxy… I “shaped” the inner layer of foam a bit… The 9’ frame assembly weighs 1.5 pounds… The deck and bottom will be Styrofoam planed to 1/4", carbon fiber inside and fiberglass outside… I think the thinness of the foam will resist denting / crushing… The experiment continues…



hey paul , looks good so far …

im worried the 1/4 styrofoam will fold trying to span those voids…

yes the carbon will help but the glass on the out side of your skin will be in compression…and i dont think the styrofoam will have enough density to support it , so itll end up creasing…

as your skin bends you will get shear load in the skin …if you stop that shear movement in the skin it will really help…

i would recomend taking the styrofoam skin out another 1/8th in thickness to a total of 3/8…

once you have your skin laminate the carbon side first …then when the carbon is dry get a razor blade and make a series of cuts in the foam , you could go as far as a hacksaw blade , you want a cross hatched pattern preferably on a 45 degree angle,

when you laminate the outside layer, those grooves will fill with resin and go through to the carbon thus forming a matrix connecting either side of the styrofoam skin…

that will prevent shear load and it will better be able to span that void…

if you were to do that process with a hacksaw blade your grooves would be larger ,then i would mix an epoxy ,q cell ,milled fibre brew and work it into the grooves befor laminating…to help off set some of the weight of bigger grooves…

if you dont do the groove matrix or something similar…you will leave your self open to skin delamination, and skin creasing …

ok hope that will save you some long term pain…

regards

BERT

As always thanks for sharing your ideas.

You have inspired me as well as countless others to think outside the box.

one quick question.

is your goal to reduce weight, or just experiment with different materials?

ok two questions.

What happened to the cardboard board?

troy

Man, you’re a sick puppy. How do you make the time? Beautiful and inspirational work!

Paul, very cool.

b.t.w what is the weight of your hollow wood frames at the same stage/board size?

Paul -

After seeing this work in progress, I have little doubt that it will work. Even if it doesn’t, I’m sure you will work out the bugs on the next one.

Thanks so much to you and Pam for the generous hospitality offered to me and the guys! It was a highlight of our trip to have stopped and been treated so generously. “The Tour” was a real treat as well.

Thanks again!!!

Welcome back John!

This picture shows the deck materials…

Blue Styrofoam planed to 3/16”…

Ripped to 1.5”…

The reason for not having it be one or two pieces is the I-Beam effect that the epoxy that seeps into the space between the strips creates…

You can see the carbon fiber cloth laminated to the other side…

The masking tape holds the strips together during the curing of the epoxy…

This is the inside of the nose…

You can see the details of the construction method…

Carbon fiber and blue foam…

The brown stuff is polyurethane construction adhesive…

The tip of the nose is reduced to allow the vent to have plenty of room to “breathe”…

Here’s the fin box…

Mounted to the inside of the board, fully encased in Carbon Fiber…

The white strip on top of the box is a foam filler that replaces the stringer…

The stringer and ribs were coated with a polyurethane construction adhesive, and the deck was placed on the frame…

The deck is weighted down and the tape holds the rails tight to the frame…

There is a foam wedge below the nose and tail to maintain rocked during the cure of the system…

the audience is watching, 381 views at the time i posted this. A lot will be learned from this project.

clean!..ambrose

im going for 10. 4 lbs…

looking good

regards

BERT

Paul,

Good ideas and nice work! Look forward to seeing more photos of the building process.

John,

Hope that big fellow didn’t invite himself to breakfast. Actually, he/she looks in good shape for this time of year. By the way, they do like strawberry surf wax.

Take care.

Patrick

Here the rails that will later be shaped, are being glued on…

The rails are 1/2" Styrofoam, glued on with polyurethane glue…

The masking tape is stretched to “clamp” it on…

More layers tomorrow, then rail shaping…


paul nice work! just an idea… would bicycle tubes work like rubber bands for you instead of tape, maybe you could reuse them each board then.

Let me stir the pot a bit…

I looked at the pix, and while the construction process is pretty much what most of us would envision for the anticipated product. Major appreciation of the time and effort is shared by us all, but I suggest there is a simpler way to go about it, which would produce substantially the same result.

A long time ago I spent several years making and riding kneeboards, as a result of picking up a major collection of wana spines in my foot. Along came Greenough in some film, and we all got a glimpse of his Velo craft. I wanted to make one, so I got a U shape cut from a longboard blank, and cast a sheet of glass using mostly scraps I had lying about the place. I married the two, crudely shaped the U, and put a small fin on it.

Then I saw a professionally made hull, a Hayden, I think, and the corrct construction process became clear: shape the hull in foam, laminate the bottom, remove all the excess foam and add more layers until it was sufficiently stiff. The product was vastly superior to mine, and much simpler. I used this approach to make a handboard or two later.

Similarly to the Hayden hull, I think your process with individually constructing ans assembling drilled out ribs and stringers is needlessly complex. You’re using very inexpesive foam, which is easily worked. I’d approach the project by shaping the hull, adding one skin (top or bottom lam) then removing excess foam to leave the same ribs and stringers you’ve got. The ribs and stringers can still be carbon/epoxy reinforced, and because they are a single continuous structure, will be marginally stiffer/stronger than constructing them singly and bonding the pieces together. The deck (assuming you add that as a single structure) can be bonded to the rest of the hull.

This process seems to offer more accuracy since the individual ribs don’t have to be carefully jigged and set to be in the correct places. The whole thing is unlikely to warp since it’s a single continuous piece, and the final hull form is more assured that way.

But, to paraphrase Tom Morey, the spirit of imagination is strong, the availability of elbow grease is limited.

“I’d approach the project by shaping the hull, adding one skin (top or bottom lam) then removing excess foam to leave the same ribs and stringers you’ve got”

It might be easier that way but what a waste of material. If caring about the environment, one should always try to optimize the building to reduce waste.

Building a 9 foot board out of a block of styrofoam would require approximately 0.35 m² of foam with most of it ending up on the trash. Building it the way Paul does probably requires no more than 0.05 m² of foam and nearly nothing wasted. That’s 7 times less !!!

Same thing applies with balsa : either you build a solid blank then chamber it or you build it with a ribs and frame structure (or EPS core).

I is your goal to reduce weight, or just experiment with different materials?

…Both…

What happened to the cardboard board?

…I have the materials, it’s a matter now of feeling inspired…

What is the weight of your hollow wood frames at the same stage/board size?

… About a pound heavier…The real difference in weight is in the skin / rails…

Would bicycle tubes work like rubber bands for you instead of tape, maybe you could reuse them each board then. …I have much better control of the tension with tape…