One thing that made me chuckle a little with your comment about using a sureform for your rail bands is that my mindless use of CAD software at the design stage notwithstanding I still defer to using a sanding block with 36 grit to bring down the last 10% of my rail bands, hone my outlines and all sorts of other secondary processes that the pros use their planers for. Not because I’m “core” but because my planer skills aren’t very good.
Eliminated that ridiculous step also, in the future.
Haha GDaddy, that was kind of a tounge in cheek comment. I’m not that great cutting rail bands with a planer either, I just use it to skin the blank.
MikeD, are you a robot?
Nah, I got that. I was just admitting to the relationship between my limited skillset and my leverage of the CAD capabilities. And the limitations of that usage.
As it happens I’ve been using very simplified CAD software for one aspect of my day job for 20+ years - that fills a function of my job that I previously used to do by hand using graph paper, pen&ink and rulers. So maybe my previous exposure to it is one reason I appreciate this mode of design.
Its not a surfboard its a standup paddle boat!
Stand up or prone…either way.
Haha, no. Not a robot, just someone who’s lucky enough to work in the future.
This always gets the computer guys panties in a bunch.
To me, I think that if you are selling someone a $600.00 dollar surfboard, or more.
They deserve more than 10 min. worth of work on their board.
The computers do not make perfect boards as stated earlier.
Wrong rockers, off rails, etc.
Better yet, I see many guys who call themselves shapers,
get a CNC cut and totally FUCK it up!
It’s a tool too! Yeah yeah.
It’s a tool allright.
It does’nt surf.
It does’nt care.
And dont even get me started about unethical machine owner/operators!
And don’t tell me consistancy is only obtained through a CNC.
Hand-shaped these. Six in one day.
Straight off my machine.
L&R Surfboard Machining.
"I just find it funny that people go out of their way to bitch and beat their chest about it, on a computer none the less lol."
Yeah, well do you have any passion for something you have spent 30 years doing?
Eating, sleeping, building surfboards 24/7.
And now 90%+ are all machined surfboards.
It makes my blood boil with what all these so-called shapers/designers are doing to this business I love!
Oh, and I bitch in person too. Ask any of the shapers in my neck of the woods.
I have no problem doing it in person too!
apparently it doesn’t
Back in the late 80s I remember plenty of shapers bitching when Rusty and Clark came out with close tolerance blanks. The rant was about unskilled amateurs being able to make a fairly decent shape 'cause the rocker and thickness flow was already in the blank. “All they 'gotta do is swipe the outline from a good pro shape and turn the rails”. Obviously there’s more to it than that. But I did see plenty of those things showing up at the glass shops that I worked at.
The master craftsman is becoming persona non grata in the modern world, pretty much across the board, regardless of the field. At least that’s what I see in my trade. Who builds real furniture anymore, dovetail joints, carved ball and claw feet, etc? Furniture comes from a big concrete box store, its made of cardboard and plastic, cnc cut and built in some impoverished nation, imported in volume, and lasts 5-15 years. Know a carpenter who can frame a complex roof - rafters valleys and ridges? Nope - its all done on a computer now, trusses built in a factory with minimum wage workers, and installed by low wage semi-skilled usually immigrant workers.
A friend called a couple sign shops about getting a sign painted on his building - the response? They don’t do that, don’t even know who does. They’re a sign shop, they design on a computer, and it gets printed on vinyl and cut by a computer. Paint a sign? Archaic.
I know all the corporate sponsored arguments about progress, economic necessity, and the bright mechanized future, but craftsmanship is inherent in our genes, using computers and robotics to remove it from our economic / social fiber is IMO a mistake.
I’ll probably get flamed for saying this, but I don’t think it comes down to people “bitching” about progress, comparable to the use of power tools, this is a society wide revolution in the way we percieve and value or devalue craftsmanship, as a human endeavor. Not much one guy can do to turn this tide, but anyone passionate about real craftsmanship is bound to have something to say about what’s happening.
I’ve posted this quote from zacharyguitars.com before, its kind of a long rant, but its pretty well written and thought-provoking, even if the writer is perceived as being a bit eccentric. I appreciate his passion, something a machine will never have.
Machines Aid Quantity, Not Quality Or Creativity
The reason for the introduction of machinery in the 20th century and the creation of guitar factories was to speed up production. Electric power tools, and now computer programmed machines have take over and have made mass production in guitar building possible. No longer can an individual craftsman build instruments one by one and be able to make a modest living since building instruments by hand is time consuming and labor intensive.
Most of today’s major guitar companies do not care much about design and quality unless it affects sales. Quantity is the main criterion. “How we can make more profit?” they ask. Unskilled people domestically and in third world countries can be trained to work a single operation in days. Often these workers have no interest in their work and do the job for what money they can get.
The motivation for the independent instrument craftsman is entirely different. A luthier never builds guitars only for money, they pursue the craft because they love it. They enjoy working with wood and they get great satisfaction form building an instrument from start to finish and seeing and playing a well-finished instrument. An instrument starts from raw wood and when finished is played for the first time by the craftsman. Luthiers try their hardest to achieve perfection in aesthetics and playability to produce a piece of art which is highly functional as well.
In factories that use computer aided machines the technology is the star not the humans. The humans are only there to load the raw materials into the machines and to finish off the instrument. As technology becomes even more powerful the human element will diminish even further and I believe that one day we will have guitars which are entirely machine made from start out finish without any human contact at all.
What is a difference between a guitar that is handmade and one that is made by a computer? The handmade instrument has life. This phenomena is not easily evident to the novice player. One has to be an intelligent and experienced guitarist to discern this obvious fact. A handmade instrument will look different, feel different and consequently sound different. It will have a certain aura about it which inexperience skeptics will dismiss all too quickly since they are unable to perceive the nuances.
Experienced musicians often speak of how their beloved instrument “speaks” to them. Its a two way relationship between the instrument and the player. This can only happen if one plays an instrument which is imbued with the spirit and the character of the maker. The craftsman will leave his mark on the raw materials and will give it character.
Where does character come from you ask. It comes from pride. Pride in work, pride in creativity, pride in achievement and pride in a fine set of tools. Tools talk to a craftsman. What a computerized machine does by a program, the craftsman does by feel. A craftsman puts his feelings into his work a computer simply regurgitates a series of commands. Hand work is between man and his God. Whenever true creativity takes place God is present. God guides the hand in success and in failure and God approves of good work.
Computers have made it possible that anyone can become a “guitar builder”. This type of guitar building has greatly diminished the true art of instrument building. Building guitars by hand is very difficult and needs a lot of practice. It is a neverending learning experience. For a guitar builder after decades of guitar building there still remains a tremendous amount to learn. The wonder and joy as each hurdle is leaped has to be experienced to be believed.
Guitar building is not necessarily a pleasurable experience. The craftsmen is always on the edge. One wrong move of the hand, one bad thought or one small distraction and disaster happens. Wood is not uniform. It is moody, it can be deceptive, sometimes hiding faults until the very last moment of finishing and you have to start all over again. Handwork can torment and it can elate.
No matter how hard the craftsman tries or how experience he is he knows that perfection can never be achieve for the simple reason that humans were not created to be perfect. Our natural condition is that of error and mistakes. The kind of accuracy that a craftsman can achieve can not be measured in “thous”. It is not necessary.
We have all heard the boasting of computer controlled machine operators that micrometers can be used to demonstrate the precision of their products. Frankly, I find this ridiculous. Precision can not speak, character and soul can. Instead what these machine programmers achieve is good engineering skills - precision engineering in wood. They feel that the most important aspect of their work is the absence of machine marks, not realizing that a toolmark is the signature of the craftsman.
This guitar was made by a person
Handmade guitars have soul, they have character, a sparkle that a machine can not produce. The apparent “perfection” of some machine made guitars has trapped many novice players in believing that this is the way it should be. Characteristically an inexperienced player can only judge an instrument visually. He has not developed his guitar skills to the point where he can truly “feel” the instrument and evaluate it accordingly.
You often see people inspecting guitars minutely to see if the finish is mirror perfect, the frets are shinny, the grain just the right look. This annoys me. Do these people do the same to a painting in an art gallery? Many expensive guitars I pick up to play are impeccable in fit and finish. The companies which produced these guitars have the latest high tech machines. Yet their guitars are “dead”, unimaginative, unatractive, dull sounding, poorly playing and without any character.
In this age of high tech it is glamorous to program machines to do all the work. Man no longer has a direct connection to his work. Instead the machine does all the operations which a human should be doing. The intimate connection between man and his creation is lost. This is analogous to programing a robot to play ones guitar instead of the person doing it directly.
Guitar playing is a sensual experience, mainly because ones flesh touches the strings producing the sound through touch. In guitar building also, this “human touch is essential”, it will be reflected in the product. What a thrill it is to see a finished guitar with the character of the builder clearly evident in the way it looks and feels.
A handmade guitar is organic. By definition, to be organic is to have flaws. Natural flaws in the wood and inevidable flaws in the work. Nature creates flaws. Flaws are the diferentiating factor between humans and all creation. Flaws are beautiful, flaws give character, flaws give a human vibe, flaws give individuality and flaws make things feel real. Imperfection is life.
Modern economics, competition, the increasing demand for inexpensive goods will make a truly handcrafted guitar a thing of the past. Guitar building by humans will become an anomaly. The glamor of high tech will make it unfashionable to make anything by hand. The demand for absolute perfection and speed of manufacture will create an artificial machine-made society totally and absolutely dependent on technology. Before long humans will cease to be human themselves.
I think the controversy has more to do with the current condition of the surfboard business than the process of building boards. Aside from the design stealing - which itself has a history that predates the machine - the market for surfboards is driven by the customer, not the board builders.
Those boards you’re complaining about go out the door because, for better or worse, there are customers who are choosing to buy them. They are deciding what their priorities are; design, graphics, which labels depict the tribal identity they want to claim - and even quality. And obviously before all of those factors comes the price for many buyers - maybe even most buyers.
We don’t really see as much of the asian imports around here (except for Firewire) because most people locally are willing to pay a little more for the domestic boards in order to avoid stinkeye in the parking lots and out in the lineup. So that shows that public opinion is of even more effect on which labels do and don’t sell than lowest price. The trick to selling more boards is obviously to hit that moving target, or better yet, create the bait that draws your target within arm’s reach.
There was a rant here on Sways a few years back where one of the veterans was referring to the decline of the mystique factor; the waning of the pixie dust appeal of the custom shaper. Boards were becoming perceived to be more like tennis racquets coming off a production line than like sailboats that get named by their owners. I don’t think it’s gotten that bad yet but I do think that some of the superficial familiarity that has arisen in the market has bred some contempt. Or at the very least has dampened the pixie dust factor.
A popular theme that gets repeated here on Sways on a regular basis is that design comes first before all the exotic build methods and materials. I would amend that to include design and appeal come first to many buyers, even before build quality. By itself that’s really neither good nor bad - it just is. So when you say you go your own way and you try to avoid following trends that’s great; but surely by now you must recognize that being the rugged individual always comes at a price in our society.
Huck, thanks for posting that.
Interesting read.
The sad really is that is happening everywhere in this world.
No product is immuned to the quantity mentality.
I have been fortunate to have worked with and befriended a lot of proud, gifted board builders in my day.
They were the guys that told me to carry the torch forward.
I feel that my job or rather my duty is to educate my customers the difference between hand-made boards vs. machine.
When my customers walk into my shop, I am usually busy, shaping, glassing, sanding. Deep into it.
I think that as I air hose off the foam dust, they get it.
Some it’s the first time ever seeing this process, they often say they had no idea how much work goes into this process.
They usually talk about how their dad or grandfather used to do something by hand too.
It is my hope that they leave with an appreciation for a truly handcrafted product.
Maybe they will seek out other things made by hand as well.
Machines Aid Quantity, Not Quality Or Creativity
You can teach a man technique.
But you can’t teach him passion.
Some surfboard builders grasp the concept. But very few possess the skills to implement them. No shortage of posers in this business.
Oh, and If you know me.
I have never been to concerned with how society views me.
Anyone can be a hero on the internet.
I back up my words with my craft.
Well , Ive seen some utter crap come off the machines. The machines cannot design a board without the correct input…nor can they finish the board to the same accuracy as a shaper . The crime that’s happening , is the blatant copying of other peoples designs , without their consent or knowledge . Immoral people behind closed doors , theiving in the darkness…it’s a worry !..(lol)
on the sign painter note, the trailer for this documentary is pretty awesome - SIGN PAINTERS (OFFICIAL TRAILER) on Vimeo
edit - now embedded for her pleasure
From Retro Fish to new shape with new dims?
Done quickly with PowerPoint, Photoshop and a computer. “Computer-Aided Design?”
I find the computer useful for exploring design possiblities …
Hey gordof thanks for the link, the movie trailer is awesome, pretty much what we’re discussing here, the last vestiges of a dying art, as the passion for profits mows right over the passion for craft, LOL.
Someone is feeling self righteous!
I agree that there is intrensic value in something handmade but that does not guarantee anyone a profession doing so. If you can build a product that people want then they will buy it. If they want it bad enough that they will pay you enough money for you to make a profession out of it then good for you. If not, then find something else. If it is your passion, you will do it wether it is your profession or not.
so when is an electrical power device made out of high speed spinning meta lblades not a “machine” ?
seems like a stupid argument if you are talking about something being truly “handmade”
make it from hand with hand tools from a block of foam like a true artist then you have something to complain about regarding “machines”
the use of the planer is only related to make “more money” that’s all it was brought in to the process for nothing more
you can build a board with nothing more tha hand tools it just takes more time and patience just like a woodworker or other artist would do if they weren’t focused on production and efficiency so you can make them faster so you can make more money from “selling” more boards. To say it is anything different is just a lie that is used to perpetuate the lie regarding the false allure of the industry.
a machine is a machine
the new cutter is just the ongoing evolution of the planer
its a lie to say anything else.
a glassing machine is not that far off.
if the industry wasn’t so focused in making as much money as possible out the sport and lifestyle as possible there wouldn’t be a need for any machines
the true revolution will come when the technology allows anyone to make their own board like it would be to cook your own meal then and only then will the continued growth of free thinking in design will come. Once the average joe can make their own equipment without all the complexity required today we will see a freedom of expression that doesn’t really exist in today’s media controlled world of surfing.
Sways is one possible genesis of this movement, the tech just needs to catch up.
Greg Loehr described a possible future where the tech will allow a “design your own” process that you can select configure and order your own design over your smartphone, or tablet, or even on your smart TV(like ordering a pizza) and have it ready by the weekend for pickup or delivered to your door. VW, Amazon, clothes and other industries are leading the way for what will eventually happen to this industry as well. Its happenning to waveparks and will eventually migrate to boards much more than what Firewire is doing today.
Just like how the northshore will eventually fall to the demands of development, surf board building will have to change too.