Thanks for all the replies people.
I guess it really is just HOW you say things and asking the right question.
The method I used :
I took a templte that was drawn to scale in inches, opened it up in photoshop, croped, then resized to scale and saved. It is somewhere around 625K.
This turned out to be a good thread for templte design, so cheers to all of you.
Thanks Kokua! great idea, i didn’t think of that yet one of the surf shops i’m in contact with has a stack of surftechs.
Cheers
… just wondering, how long does it take you guys that use a computer to make a good final hard template using this method?
Good point Ben. By the time you’ve run to Kinko’s, dropped off the disc, picked up the full sized outline and traced it on to a hard template, you could have shaped the whole damn board.
I’ve always found it difficult at best to cut a smooth clean curve out of paper with a pair of scissors even if my pencil marks (or computer print)were right on. My hand drawn lines are never perfect anyway.
Trying to trace around the paper template with a pencil generally introduces even more warbles. Cutting the hard template material right on the line by hand? Good luck. It always takes me a good amount of shaving and sanding of the hard template to get it right. You can get any number of key dimensions right off a CAD diagram. Why not skip the paper entirely?
My best template results have been plotted directly on a strip of hard template material in a “connect the dots” manner, cut out and faired by hand using a plane and sanding block. It doesn’t take very many dots to get a reasonable idea of the curve. With a long sanding block (longblock), I can “draw” a much smoother line than with a pencil. The edge of the hard template is perfect for tracing around with a pencil.
Edit: Sorry Rhino - I just reread your original post and saw “besides sketching one out”
I guess a paper template would be great for your first board, my first couple were done on Clark shipping box cardboard. With the CAD or any computer program how much real time are you guys spending on the computer to get one final outline which will then be scaled to paper then traced to the blank or fiberboard? seem like the long way to go IMHO.
The connecting the dots with a long flexible board works .
Howzit John, Yeah it’s hard to beat 1/8" mahogany door skin for templates.Aloha,kokua
lmao
Good point Ben. By the time you've run to Kinko's, dropped off the disc, picked up the full sized outline and traced it on to a hard template, you could have shaped the whole damn board.I’ve always found it difficult at best to cut a smooth clean curve out of paper with a pair of scissors even if my pencil marks (or computer print)were right on. My hand drawn lines are never perfect anyway.
Trying to trace around the paper template with a pencil generally introduces even more warbles. Cutting the hard template material right on the line by hand? Good luck. It always takes me a good amount of shaving and sanding of the hard template to get it right. You can get any number of key dimensions right off a CAD diagram. Why not skip the paper entirely?
My best template results have been plotted directly on a strip of hard template material in a “connect the dots” manner, cut out and faired by hand using a plane and sanding block. It doesn’t take very many dots to get a reasonable idea of the curve. With a long sanding block (longblock), I can “draw” a much smoother line than with a pencil. The edge of the hard template is perfect for tracing around with a pencil.
Edit: Sorry Rhino - I just reread your original post and saw “besides sketching one out”
If you want to transfer paper templates to hardboard/wood use some 77 spray and attach the paper to the wood and then cut it out. I think that is how Greg L. makes his rocker templates. He scales his rocker templates on the computer, prints, glues, cuts.
As for the value of going through print steps… I’m not sure. I did my first 2 boards just connecting the dots right on the blank with the bender stick. Board 3 & 4 used card board templates made from connecting the dots with bender stick. One because the 2" thcik 1# EPS was too flexy to hold the bender stick on and the other because the template barely fit the blank and not enough room to keep the stick on the board when drawing it out. The current project I used APS3000 to get a rough design and then placed the reference marks on the masonite and used the bender stick. Did this for both the rocker template and the outline template, including the s-curve tail.
manyways to do it
fast for three days
on the forth day
walk the beach
find abandonded fire pit
with no evidence of alcohol
drinking…
sit quietly for fifteen minutes
clearing deepest anxieties.
eat an orange.
stir coals of fire pit
select three pieces of charcoal
put them in a clean receptacle
shoe box,.tupperware etc
do not select ho coals as
they may melt or burn
your container or hand.
these coals will scribe
the outline onto blank
on one side
shape one side
make true then
make template on anything
thete’s lotsa salvage
hard board ,maonite is the best
but 1/8’'is max thickness
thicker is slow
lumber yards throx it away
it is dunnage wrapping plywood
ask please
maybe they will sell it to you
for buck or two.
DO make a big deal about it
involve office equiptment
toners service agents
office hours parking
the effort to drive up
the measurable documented
expenses will be important
when you sue for design infringement.
the dates on the kinko bills will ge heaven sent
and the rolled up templates will make better
'Exhibit A ’ fodder during the trial…
…ambrose…
This question is right up my alley since I am in the copier and printer business and sell wide format systems. Don’t go to Kinkos…go to a blueprint shop. Kinkos is more than likely using an HP color inkjet plotter to do the work. Thats why its so expensive…the paper and ink are very expensive to run one of those machines somewhere in the neighborgood of $15 to $25 a sheet their cost to print your drawing depending on the amount of fill. Now if you go to a blueprint shop they will be printing your drawing on a B/W digital wide format copier with a print controller in it. These machines cost next to nothing to run once you make the initial investment and the paper costs them about $40 per 500 foot roll. At a Blueprint shop using this technology you can expect to pay between $5 and $7 for your drawing.
PS. A PDF file will be fine as will a DWG or even a TIFF/JPEG. Any blueprint shop worth their salt will have no problem printing these formats
I know this thread is pretty ancient, but I just printed a template at Staples, and the guy only charged me $4.99.
I have been driving 20 miles to Kinkos, and I have a Staples about 1 mile away. Thanks for the advice.
Ben Shipman posted here…
tears
Depends…
DO make a big deal about it
involve office equiptment
toners service agents
office hours parking
the effort to drive up
the measurable documented
expenses will be important
when you sue for design infringement.
the dates on the kinko bills will ge heaven sent
and the rolled up templates will make better
'Exhibit A ’ fodder during the trial…
Genious!!!
Timeline:
I did one this way last night. I created the template in AKU/APS. (10min) Created a pdf. (1 min) Scaled it up in Illustrator (3 min). Sent it to local kinkos via their website (5 min).
Drove over and picked it up. (30 minutes)
Cost $6.00… .75 a square foot. Tell them it’s just a line, black and white.
Sat on the floor and cut it out painstakingly while ‘watching’ Broke Down Melody… (30 min.)
So thus far I’ve spent about an hour and a half. Who knows how long to get it on doorskin (weeks???hehe) but that is how I operate. It seems to create an exellent template for a layperson. There is still alot of shaving and truing up when it comes to finishing the doorskin… but it creates a really good foundation, I think.
My computer templates seem to come out a good bit better than my bender stick templates… as the latter requires some practice and skill!!!
hunter
Is there a code word?
Can I flirt with one of the fatties behind the counter to get a deal?
How is a 7’X1’ sheet of paper and some ink worth $70 US!!!
The words you wrote in the past are PRICELESS!
I don’t know one shaper who makes templates this way. Funny how that is. Old and in the Way.
Its really not very complicated, people!
Get some dimensions (length, width center, width at 12’’ and 24’’ from nose and tail). Crib them off a board that you like or draw them on graph paper (or in a CAD program if you really feel the need to involve a computer).
Then, mark those dimensions on a blank, and stretch masking (preferably a darker-colored) tape between the points, until you get a nice curve. Repeat on the other side- (Hey, if you can’t create balanced curves this way, forget trying to shape them).
Dust the tape edge with spray paint or graphite, and cut out with a handsaw. Yes- a handsaw- it makes the truest curves-under-tension.
Clean up the cut. Make any adjustments the you deem necessary. Yes- YOU- its your baby-no one else is shaping this board!
Now you’ve got an actual, non-virtual hunk of material in front of you, and you will begin to feel those curves.
When you get it the way you like it, trace the actual curve onto a sheet of doorskin or 1/8’’ masonite.
I’ve always cut out my templates with a big wormdrive Skilsaw (I learned this from a shipwright). Using a panel-cutting blade, set at just a hair over the thickness of the template material, which is tacked or clamped to a 8 foot long piece of pine shelving, cut the bulk of the curve with the Skilsaw, and straight-cut the tighter radii, and leave some room for wings and/or bumps. You’ll have to use a handsaw for those areas.
Then, clamp the cut template material to the pine board (which itself is clamped to a worktable or shaping stand) and use the power planer (NOT a sander) to clean up and true up the edge. The planer will maintain the same curve-under-tension set by the handsaw and the skilsaw.
Finish up with a sharp hand plane and a sanding block.
The whole operation maybe takes an hour and a half, and you’ll have both a planshaped blank AND a new template. (and a deeper appreciation of that curve).
Computers are cool, and everything, but part of the joy of making a surfboard (or anything) by hand is the HANDWORK!
[edit] ps. what Ambrose said…
[edit part II] maybe I’m experiencing early-onset geezerhood, but all this talk about beers-per-board and Akus sounds pupule! Its turning it into paint-by-numbers…
Seems to me like I read where Pat Curran would make a cardboard template and stick it to the ceiling.He would study it while laying in bed.