The Modern HPSB. Can it be kept on Rail by the average joe?

General Discussion
1

I watch and observe all riders hulls and the water flowing under them, and their feet and the wave below every time I surf, with what tests as still better than 20/20 vision.

It seems to me that the good guys, riding the most modern HPSB’s ‘models’, rarely can throw down everything into bottom turn, and hold it, but instead tenatively initiate a turn, then modulate the power applied, to keep the board from skipping out, requiring a double or triple pump bottom turn, and then only once they get to open face, does the board seem to respond properly, as My eye/mindset/preconceptions deem appropriate to the conditions.

Perhaps I am stuck in more rail line of a longer boad holding a long powerful bottom turn, and the Shortest possible Skatey under the lip mindset of today requires an approach to a wave that is not visually pleasing to my 45 year old grumpy ass.

I guess the bottom turn is disappearing. The BT to me has always been the most satisfying, its timing, the power applied, the projection yielded, where it puts the rider…

I judged a board by how it handled this, but these days it seems the most performance oriented boards cannot be surfed around the bottom turn, and need to be kept on the slope of the face, the bottom/trough to be avoided, like twin fins in weak but fast peeling waves.

So are the boards dicatating the surfing or the surfer’s dictating the boards?

A good surfer can ride anything, but what makes a good board visually pleasing to the observer, to you??

It’s about having fun, but what happens when fun insults the wave and those observing rider and wave?

In my opinion, a Board which balks on a hard bottom turn deserves derision, even if the rider can avoid the trough, pump pump and launch an Air do some snowboard or skate board trick and them throw a claim to the roarig adulation of Spectators/ observers younger than me.

Or am I just ‘Too’ old and crusty, at 45?

I watched some young very capable guys in 1 ’ to nearly double overhead waves tonight, with binoculars, and every wave they rode seemed as if they simply had to hold off applying significant power to the board to get the projection they required to have a hope of making it to the shoulder. The guys who did set up a beautiful bottom turn and throw down some power, fell flat on their face as the board skipped out, or fell backwards off the tail. But if they did modarate everything like a skateboarder on wet soapy concrete, and then make it to open face, only then did they not look like a capable surfer impersonating a Kook and the board look alive and quick underfoot.

Perhaps they should be forced to surf a single fin without a leash.

Agree/disagree, comments?

2

AGREE.

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WRC6-8 some related discussion arose in a recent thread, you may enjoy a read http://www.swaylocks.com/forums/edge-boards

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…hello. Modern Surfing (last 30 years) is based on the rail changes (so the thruster)
The Brazilians never ever did a bottom turn in all these years and they finally had a winner…
Its all bout the pro Surfing and their acolytes…and that s is the 70% of the Surfing world.
Then regarding those mini sequential bottom turns, in my opinion most are in need of different fin shapes and sizes.
The waves where I live are fast and short so you cannot do a bottom turn like in a pointbreak so you need to take off and skip though the sections changing from curl to small bottom turns and fast action.

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bump

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Its not the board’s fault, it is the mindset of the younger generation of riders. Guys today are trying to do tricks before they have mastered the basic bottom turn-top turn combinations and developed a solid cut back. I am from the Kelly Slater generation. Airs weren’t really being tried by average surfers. At best we would try to blast off on close out sections at the end of the wave. Today’s generation of average surfers never bothered to learn how to do five turns on a wave before launching on the end section. They skipped that part of the learning process and try to launch (and blow the wave) on the first section they can.

With my own kids I’ve hated when they watch youTube videos of Gabriel Medina and John John. I get the controller and start searching for videos for them to watch of Taylor Knox. To me, his approach to surfing is what every average Joe short boarder should aspire to. Joel Parkinson is another approach to aspire to for the average guy.

My favorite shot of my oldest is this one. He’s maturing and starting to get it.

photo DSC04376_zpsdzcyah02.jpg

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I will add this: The boards most average joes are riding right now are not conducive to rail surfing. The boards most guys are on are shaped for short burst down the line speed for launching…and not for top to bottom surfing. Top to bottom rail surfing requires a different short board. Bring back slightly longer, narrower boards with more rocker and perhaps even some V in the bottoms and you will see more visually appealing short board surfing return.

8

At least 90% of all surfers are on the wrong board and would have far more fun on something different, but there’s this thing called “ego” that prevents them from riding what is right.

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Most of the fun of surfing, for me, comes from riding boards that are not designed to boost airs. I would much prefer some visually appealing surfing. Especially done on the boards I make. I want to see long waves with drawn out turns and some sweet cut backs. Maybe a punt at the end of the wave for good measure. But if there is open face that can be gotten to or ridden, use it up before boosting.

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I wouldn’t say its ego. I’d say its fashion.

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“Its not the board’s fault, it is the mindset of the younger generation of riders. Guys today are trying to do tricks before they have mastered the basic bottom turn-top turn combinations and developed a solid cut back.”

Mako’s got it.

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…yes; all other stuff is perceived as “out” like with surfboards; hence that the factories use that approach and cut corners everywhere to follow that path.
The young guys think that the gloss is somewhat you can do very easy with a rattle can and just that. No appreciation (no matter if not your style of board) for the quality, good work, different shapes, etc.

In my opinion ALL WENT DOWN after the impact of pro surfing. Not was the leash but these guys that ruined surfing and still ruining it.

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Topping this, just to help bury more Asian spam

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Love or hate the current ‘pro’ trends, I think it’s just another faze in the shortboard evolution.
I’m 46 and skated in the 70’s before my first board in the early 80’s. Fun times in the water and such a varied assortment of boards too. No matter how I tried I just couldn’t ollie a skateboard. It was transport for me really.
The 90’s was a hideous time for surfboards in my opinion and I lost a bit of the passion for it. It was also the last decade I purchased a new surfboard. Late 90’s and I got into snowboarding (going in two weeks time again).
This has influenced my surfing to a point were ollies on my backhand seem quite natural…but like the original post on this topic I love a sweeping carve and deep/late bottom turn and still pull them off well for my slower paddling age.

The pro’s will always influence those watching, but I for one am glad to see so many different designs (past and present) in the water again. I’m sure some of the wiser surfers/shapers on here have a similar experience with a certain decade or two? It’s also the reason I’m on here and willing to try different designs and get the right board for the conditions…rather than travelling the world for the perfect wave to suit my board. I’m happy and passionate with the sport again and keep trying to influence my younger friends on board design.
Yep, I needed to get that out, thanks.
Spread the love and spread the wisdom.

15

I keep observing the Shortboard which apparently balks at doing a bottom turn where it is called for, on a wave which calls for it. Like the rider goes to lay it down on rail in the trough, and push hard, and the board says:
‘Whoa whoa nellie, not so hard there mr lead foot’

Obviously not every surfer on every wave, but enough that it seems to be a trend. It is like the concave is causing a lift bubble under the fin cluster and the fins fight the rail and both fight the surfer trying to stay in/near the pocket.

Now if theyse were kids looking to to some above the lip antics, I could understand enjoying a board with a lot of squirt on open face, but these are being ridden by older capable surfers who do not want to waste a wave, nor outrun it.

I spoke to one of them yesterday, and he claimed to love how his new 3 inch shorter board felt, so far, but his riding his older board, his bottom turn was a joy to watch. That is now gone.

16

No boards surfed on rail for me better than the boards I was riding in the early 90s shaped for Natural Art by Richard Price. These boards had an outline very similar to what people are riding today except more rocker and V from nose to tail. These boards were made for top to bottom surfing on rail.

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It’s 2017. Can’t go backwards.
Skateboards have had a lot of influence on what we see in “high performance” surfing. Professional surfing has also been a huge influence. We all copy others and depending on when and where we started, and the people we idolize or think are really good, our tastes will differ.
I saw surfing change from a time when surfers idolized a powerful but graceful style, to a powerful aggressive style. I saw a change from riding in harmony with a wave as far as possible to throwing the biggest turn possible regardless if you ride out the wave.
With the pro influence, I see too many people acting like they are in a contest and trying to score as many points as possible. They only ride the sweet part of the wave then hustle back out and try get another right away. Meanwhile, there’s still plenty wave left and maybe no one in the spot to ride it. This also created the problem of having all these people sitting in the way hoping the person on that wave will either kick out, make too big turn and get caught behind, or fall off.
I don’t know what good or bad is, but I know that my style and likes are based on the people I look up from the '60s up to this year. The double pump turn has its place and you do it when you need to. I think it is a result of the way a modern pro thruster works.
Back when I was idolizing guys and we all had single fins, I was from the school of coming straight down and nailing as hard a bottom turn as possible. For backside rides, that could often end up in a major spin out, so guys started doing the s-turns and loosing up the board a bit before hitting that bottom turn. Reno Abelleira comes to mind, when I first stated seeing it. Some would do so many s-turns dropping down the face or on the wall, I thought that was a bit off. There was this guy some of you may have heard of named Shaun Tomson doing that a lot, Bobby Owens too. At least for me, Bobby always seemed smooth, while Shaun seemed stiff to the point of being awkward. I think Bobby’s smoother style made his surfing look less intense on the wave, but he ripped. For a few years in '70s his family lived in my neighborhood, and the 3 brothers surfed our breaks. Bobby’s younger brothers were really into skate boards back then.
Riding a skateboard well will improve your surfing. It did for me, and I’m sure it does for John Florence.

18

Watch Curren on the yellow rail board in the second half of this video.

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A young Tom Curren at good sized Sunset Beach on Oahu was the first time I’d seen that staged turn. At the time I thought his board wasn’t able to handle the power, so he was adjusting his style (nursing the board). So it would be the equipment that created that style.

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…for your keen observation skills. Well done.