the perfect carving shortboard

General Discussion
1

Anyone here who can offer some advice on the following subject would be much appreciated. I am searching for the perfect carving shortboard and I have a small lead that I wonder if anyone can shed light on. While watching “Searching for Tom Curren” there is a segment where he is surfing a series of pointbreaks in South Africa in a springsuit with yellow sleeves in a segment called “time for School”. The board he is riding there seems perfectly suited for his carving style. It seems to be from the era just prior to new school rockered out concave potato chips. Anyone have any idea who the shaper was and what the dims and design features of that board might be? I live on the north coast of NSW and ride waves very similar to that.(ie lots of point and beachbreaks in the 2-5 foot range) 37 Yo, 75kg (165 lbs) 5’10". I learnt on single-fins and above all love boards that have drive and carve, especially off the bottom turn. I need some paddle power but not too much length. I’ve just snapped my last short board, a seventies style 6’0" with thruster setup that surfed great but was alittle limited close to the lip (the wide thick nose just didn’t want to go there). Anyone got any ideas about the perfect carving shortboard?


2

Some of the boards and especially the yellow bottom with the clear deck no logos 7’2" ridden at the Wyland Pro was a reverse V shaped by Maurice Cole. Man he ripped on reverse V’s! I watched this again and it looks like a Maurice Cole. Trying hard to locate his logo of that era. Question, why did people stop riding these they worked unreal.

3

My sentiments exactly Cuttie. Have we missed something from that era (even though it is very recent)?. There just seems something so on-rail and carve oriented about those boards (even allowing for the genius of Curren)

4

Hay Lennox!

yeah i’m pretty certain it was a maurice cole.

for what you describe i would go…

2" longer than what you’d usaully ride in comparible waves

width is up to you

i’d move the wide point up a little from a standard thruster.

pintail

most importantly fins, the h2 fcs set are really worth the cash and carve hard!

low rails to

5

Hey Lennox,

Im really keen on the carve subject, this comes from first hand experience.

There are a few key factors, the type of wave being most critical (those south african points dont hurt).

But I believe that board FLEX is one of the keys to taking carving to new levels.

When you get on a flex majic designed to your specs, you’ll be blown away.

Its the greatest feel on a surfboard.

When Bert starts filling orders, give him a shout.

sunovasurfboards.com

6

thanks craftee, don’t know that much about flex cause I’ve always ridden trad. pu/pe boards ( i assume you are ta;lking about compsand construction). I’m actually more curious about other features of the shape that go towards making a shortboard that carves. Curren was obviously riding pu/pe boards. What about them caused them to surf so positively off the rail. Rocker, rail shape, width, outline, length ? Hazarding a guess they seem maybe 6’2" , 6’3" , slightly wider outline, with width carried forward a bit up under the chest/ front foot and flatter rocker. Any other carving afficianados care to weigh in. IMHO the surfing of Curren in that era was the last great swansong of real bottom turns ala BK, Hakman, Owl and the Freeride Aussies. Since then with the changes in board volume bought about by Slater the buried to the stringer bottom turn just doesn’t exist anymore.

7

Im by no means experienced in this, but aren’t single fins surfed more “carvy” than thrusters??. I have a 6’5’’ single fin roughly templated, and that’s the reason why, i thought they were good for carvy, flowy, drawn out turns, especially off the bottom. I realise there are other important factors as well though.

8

yeah nothing goes rail to rail quite like a single fin. they just rip.

Nothing burys the tail like a pintail and nothing throws more spray then a twin keel fish. keels are good for throwing spray!

your right beer fan, single fin flow and carve

i think curren’s boards in that section were atleast 6’6" though.

9
Quote:

Im by no means experienced in this, but aren’t single fins surfed more “carvy” than thrusters??. I have a 6’5’’ single fin roughly templated, and that’s the reason why, i thought they were good for carvy, flowy, drawn out turns, especially off the bottom. I realise there are other important factors as well though.

Carviest board I’ve ridden (taking that to mean carrying speed through the turn, not just burying the rail and surviving) was a Bahne Standard circa 1970. Single fin, soft diamond tail, rails down, hard, and slightly thinned from about 2/3 of the distance to the tail, wide point ever so slightly forward. Slight vee from slightly forward of the fin through the tail. Not to be confused with the rounded pins that were the Bahne Std in adjacent years. I believe the template was from Mike Hynson, but I’m not positive on that. I rode mine at 7’6", but in hindsight, probably could have gone 4-6" shorter Ah, I could go a bit on that puppy.

-Samiam

10

Good point Lennox.

But I will add this; you do know about flex because you do ride pupe.

Pupe is still the standard.

The problem is with lighter pupe boards, the majic doesnt last very long.

Its less of a problem with heavier boards, if thats your preference.

I make advanced flex compsands but my benchmarks are still pupe.

Ive just figured out how to make them better now and once you get on one that is suited to you, its hard to go back to anything else. I’ll end the construction discussion there.

I agree with much of what has been said here. Design and finning is paramount.

But I’ll also say, that I can carve on just about any board or setup. Its just that some things make it easier than others…and thats what I think youre trying to find.

From a design point of view, with a wave reference similar to the TC vid, ease of speed combined with the proper fin setup is the call. There are many ways to go about this and everyone’s idea of ‘ease of speed’ differs.

Back then when the vid was shot (80’s?), modern shortboards had less rocker, were thicker, wider and bottom contours were much simpler. A typical 6.5ft performance three finner had about 4 inches of nose rocker, about 2 or less tail, flat to vee bottom, 2.6 thick and 19+ wide. Nothing really special there really. Just a board that requires less physical input from the rider, as compared to today’s thruster.

I ride similar boards but use modern concave bottom. A three fin can carve great (have you seen Dan Malloy surf? IMO, he’s today’s TC) but its easier/smoother and less resistant if you use smaller rail fins with a bigger center. Yes single fins carve great too.

Just keep in mind, I guess this goes without saying, but lots of people try to duplicate TCs surfing…very few succeed IMO. Its the surfer, not the board. TC can make door surfing look gracefull.

But, there is always hope. I like to ‘feel’ like I surf like him and I can succeed in that respect, but video would suggest otherwise. :wink:

11

it seems for carving style boards you want to go a little wider, but keep them pretty short and thin. Keep them moder, not 70’s thick. Thin is the key, get it to fly around and not be clunky, but width will still let you ride all the way out in front of the wave and hold speed, delaying your bottom turn, sort of likeyou are soaring around wherever you want. And a big concave throughout the bottom would probablay add to it. so you can pump it and the board will be alive.

12

The straighter the template and rocker curve in the back half of the board, the more drawn out the turn. Fins are a big deal - removable so you can experiment, location of trailing fin is important- further back means more hold and pour on the power. Bottom shape - I like single concave or v between the feet, both have good points, single concave- gouging carvy turns: v between the feet- rolls beautifully from rail to rail. Carving can be short radius or long radius depending on how you use above variables. The right thickness in rail and tail so you can sink both the ‘right’ amount Your feet are the final additive. Takes a lot of experimenting to get it all together. (I surfed Lennox head years ago - WOW- what a wave you lucky bastard!

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thanks patrickfreen, samiam, craftee, beerfridge poser and josh. Ilove the feeling of singlefins and have an 8’0" McCoy gullwing single-o to ride when it gets big around here. Nothing like the feeling of high-lining an 8 foot singlefin on a 10 foot point break. i feel they lack a bit of versatility in small wave boards, they don’t have the acceleration into and out of turns that multi fin boards have. I feel like the scent is getting warmer. i’m not sure about the thin-ness part of the equation, or the concaves: to me one of the biggest differences between modern high performance shortboarding and Curren era shortboarding is the amount of spastic little pumps and micro turns that modern surfers must engage in. to me this is a most serious aesthetic fault and seems intimately connected with rail volume and concave. i’m trying to put into words this concept of “resistance” that to me seems connected with the idea of carving ie that when you lean over and put pressure on the boards rail at speed in a bottom turn there will be something to push against, something offering resistance, that translates into forward thrust and control. Modern shortboards seem woefully over sensitive in this area ( a performance

tradeoff that allows for extremely radical manouevres). So anyway by that way of thinking the forward rail and bottom curve become ever more important in my quest. Yes Patrick Lennox is an unbelievable wave; in many ways a warm water Jefferies Bay, with similar potential for speed and distance covered per turn. Gets very crowded, but if you can surf mid-week or don’t mind paddle marathons on the big days you can still score it uncrowded. cheers for your responses.

14

Lennox - concaves can be set up to really aid carving, a single shallow concave starting about 18" from nose and deepest between the feet (about 1/8") then gradually fading to flat or a little v behind the trailing fin can aid speed, drive and holding. Too thin of a rail and it sinks too early in the turn causing bogging, too thick and you’re fighting the board. If you look at some footage of the pros on their stepup boards you’ll see some outstanding carving of varying radius turns. I have some recent footage of Tom Curren at ‘off the wall’ on a new Merrick and he’s really laying into it- It’s at Surfline.com-video archive-‘off the walled’. Enjoy.

15

I think outline and rocker will affect carve more than bottom contours, but it’s just a personal view

Wide point may be moved forward of centre to aid carve. Turns are more projected so you can keep the heat on the tail for longer

BUT, my fins are 18"/9" forward, so I may be way off base for you.

16

Lennox,

Your last response is spot on.

I forgot to mention…the Channel Islands website has photos of a signature

TC Black Beauty model…clean, pintail, relaxed rocker, thicker foil.

Built for speed. Fin it to your own taste.

Check it out.

17

this is just my personal observation based on the newbie ness of me, gleamed from other posts, and my general experience.

The black beauty I’ve seen in the shops seems more like a semi/fun gun . . . it seems built for OH+ . . . and not really for carving around (although the final determinant would be the rider)

wanna borrow some salt?

I think its due to both the board and the rider . . .

In the 80’s it was about more flow and power surfing (Curren, Cheyne, Buttons etc) . . . there is even a quote from Larry Bertleman or Buttons (forgot which and I can’t pull my archives) that said current surfing is ‘calling manuevers what we used to call mistakes’

So it would be the rider’s approach to it. Today’s groms (well this is shortboarding groms), seen to base a good wave off of how many maneuvers vs actually riding the wave to its full worth.

They often scream and yell ’ sick wave’ if you catch it, bottom turnl, then do this massive snap that throws spray but forces you lose momentum and the wave carries on w/ouot the rider . . . or catch a wave, boost and land, but the wave charges on unridden.

But they don’t hoot at the longboarder trimming and riding down for 5 seconds, then hitting the nose for two, going up and down and kicking out at the end.

Plus also have to look at boards . . . my 7’6 funboard single fin I take out if its 3 ft or smaller . . . I can pump it and go up and down and milk the wave. One time I cruised around 2 crumblingsections, and came out the curl, and a shortboarder was taking off the peak 100 yards down, and was surprised to see me come out of the section that was collapsing.

The volume I find plays a key . . .

Also the rocker and fin arrangement as others have said . . .

I haven’t been able to get as cruisy on my 2 in 18 in 6 ft shortboard . . .

Solosurfer mentioned something about Kelly Slater and new school and how board became potato chip thin and they weren’t as great (I guess in terms of performance for regular people, not grom-light riders) as the 1st and second generation thrusters.

Also Jim P has mentioned to that current potatoe chips are designed only for the top riders, not everyday people

So I think back then riders had a different focus and what ‘maneuvers they wanted on the wave’ and also rode boards with a different focus than what is considered in today.

The retro movement is a backlash against the thinner / lighter / performance boards out the traditional materials . . . the boards have gotten so light and small you really need to on top of your game to make something go out of them . . .

18

thanks Hiro, I hear you about the retro thing, but I’m just coming from that land ( if you see my original post you will notice the snapped board is a 70’s remake with thruster fin setup) and the performance limitations for the kind of waves we get around here seem too drastic. I’m trying to find a golden land, a nirvana of carve, where the board rolls over on it’s rail and projects cleanly up into the top part of the wave and carves back down. I chose Curren as the example not because i could ever hope to surf like him but because he is the highest master of that pure form of surfing (interesting to see

the lovely triple-stringered single-fin his dad shaped for him which he rides in the opening scene of searching for Tom Curren as a young boy). There must be other blokes like me who want a clean carving shortboard .any bonzer or quad riders got any thoughts?

19

OK I have been lurking on this thread for too long.

Lennox, You started with a thruster setup on a bulky 70’s outline. But need improved vertical performance on this. Sounds like you need the thruster engine for vertical attack but planshape / rocker etc tuned for more projection and carve (as you call for).

To me, you are describing Grant Millers WATERSKATE. I have ridden several and they are the modern equivalent of what you require.

he has a website: http://www.waterskatesurfboards.com/. read the description of waterskate model.

i have no vested interest here mate. it just sounds like the board from my experience.

other than that a traditional fish is mad fun for carving but lacks vertical attack. A small single fin (2+1 setup) might be the go. And a PAVEL style QUAD fish may be the funnest board ever!

20

While watching “Searching for Tom Curren” there is a segment where he is surfing a series of pointbreaks in South Africa in a springsuit with yellow sleeves in a segment called “time for School”. The board he is riding there seems perfectly suited for his carving style. It seems to be from the era just prior to new school rockered out concave potato chips.

Hey Lennox, I dusted off the vid and checked it out. The first two waves of that segment is what I think youre talking about. TC is wearing pink sleeves and riding a yellow railed board. That might be Jbay, not sure.

Re the board: doesnt look like anything special but its not VERY similar to the Black Beauty. I’d say that board is about 6’6 x 19 or so inches wide. It looks early 90’s thin, maybe around 2.5 thin. Relaxed rockerd; maybe 4.5N and 2T. The only thing I can say about contour is that at the time that filming was made, concaves were all the rage, still is in many ways. Definitely three fins. Again, nothing out of the ordinary. But TC is not ordinary.

If you look at the other smaller waves in the same segement, the smooth artistic carve isnt really there. Those first two waves, are fairly large DOH with semi-steep kind of slopey open faces. Perfect for stylish carving!

So before I said its the man, now I say its the man and those waves. TC would have surfed those two waves the same whether it was concave or flat or whatever. He’s simply surfing the wave as its asked to being surfed. He’s the modern style master for sure. Gotta check out Dan Malloy too…Ive see him in new vids and I swear I think its TC. You can see some of that in that new one “slipping jetstreams”, something like that. Great GREAT flick with incredible cinematography, editing and music.