The Skateboard Surfboard Thread?

General Discussion
1

I just saw a couple of posts that mentioned this (world of–) design concept and there’s a “finless” thread going…

I’d been thinking about this one for a while and I have some fin temp thoughts, and some bottom contour thoughts

eg: In terms of fins, there are either finned boards or unfinned boards, or I guess a combination

  1. In terms of fins on finned boards, I reckon you could give these a shot: fins that are symetrical so you could mount two (or 3, I suppose) at each end, at the rail fin positions 11" up from the given end…

Perhaps a single at one end and a twin at other… (Feral Dave)

or the standard tri at one end, with fin temps that don’t penalize you (throw ya off) when they dip in going the wrong way…

  1. Finless: I’d thought about cupping (concave but more so) the rails from just behind the wide point back to the 15" up mark and flattening out from there back

Channelizing at both ends with maybe 2 deep channels of maybe 1" deep back where fins would normally be and at the nose end in similar location

Concave within concave: a sort of combination of the 2 above concepts, inboard channels at fin positions in combination with cupped rails from WP back to about 18" or where tail pull gets serious, to avoid toed-out fin syndrome…

  1. Concave decks with built-in kicktails

also, flat middle bottoms with kicked noses and tails and wakeboard style finlets toward those ends

  1. short overall lengths in the 5.5’ and less range

  2. supershort 5’2" thick wide fish (with how much vee, and maybe cupped rear rails or concave front foot rail to flat, to veed double?)

  3. double-ended squash

or, assymetric ends, like WP off centered, you could have a WP back squash end for shortboarding and airs, and a WP forward end fish with (the shortboards nose would be like–) a sort of bat-tail or a fish tail with maybe less pronounced crack…(figure out fins and bottoms for that set-up…)

For double end squash with small quad nose&tail symmetrical fins, finlets, or no fins, think cess slides, nose slides, unfinned Berts, tuck-knee airs, and other clean airs…

also ridging the bottom so surfers can land on the face like men instead of the soft overbelly…

and oh yeah I have an idea for a symmetrically-ended fin with a voided middle that combines abbreviated quad fin area and punctuated base, with ovoid mini-hydrofoil tips, that I think would enhance a smaller fin’s hold, give a glide and slide feeling, and hold in in the barrel, while enabling end-switching

Okay

It’s late now, and I’m a few in, so post up if you feel like it

http://www.marinemet.com/marinemet_html/lect18.html

2

my , you HAVE given this some thought , HAVEN’T you ?

good on ya mate …

now …the HARD part …

if you BUILD it they will … [come ? …to air ? pop shove it ? fakie ? rock n’ roll lipslide ? manual ? ]

personally , I would love to see you give it a go , mate …go for it …

cheers

ben

the multi-directional kiteboard , but on a wider and longer [? and thicker , or not? …"eps " springs to mind , for some reason !] scale , so you can paddle-in takeoff on it , to summarise , perhaps ?

3

You know what–I will, and I will do it with you in mind-- I WILL mill out at least one of these damn things, and most likely, one double-ended squash and one with an assymetric wide point,

I WILL try to go finless

and I WILL grind out some symmetric fins to mount fore and aft,

and I WILL TRY to execute the mini-hydrofoils in G10 with epoxy bonds at the perpendiculars (gotta get a grinder…)

and I will do it with you in mind, because your ongoing experiments inspire me Ben

no joke, mate

Traced the temp for first fish a while ago here and cut the found lumber for shaping stands, bought 3.5" screws for that, promised 6yo daughter her mini-log…

Gotta assemble stands and cutter tomorrow, cut fish temp, maybe hers

Cheers

PS: they will Hurricane!

4

I heard about a guy surfing pipe on a body board. They have no fins.

It gave me an urge to see if I could stand up on a body board, so I bought a custom X gorilla 44" and paddled out into some very crappy 2 to 3 foot + waves to see what would happen. The steeper waves were obviously easier to get up on and ride as I could set a rail and pump a little bit. In the mushier spots though, when the board flattened out, I could spin around EXTREMELY easily. It felt very much like a snowboard.

I posted a little while ago about a board with razor sharp rails, not pinched rails, but boxy, with real geometric type angles (90 degrees, 45 degrees, etc.) and while I still havent glassed the dang thing, this body board has angled rails,that hold in much better then my longboard with the fin out (which has softer rails throughout).

Does anyone have any experience with standup BBing or in making angular railed boards

If not, one of you serious shapers should give them both a go

By the way, I am 5’9’ and 175 lbs. not a real small guy and the 44" body board floats me like my 6’2"

5

Hey Werepat,

I used to bodyboard ALOT before getting into surfing. I would stand up on my body board and just blow the minds of surfers that were too narrowminded to imagine what a body board could do. My body board was about 42" but I’ve also done it on a 36". It can be done and 360 spins and ollies were done with ease. Excellent pastime during blackball season.

I believe the secret lies with the rails.

Cheers,

Rio

6

hey rio

yeah we used to stand up on body boards and do turns and stuff when we were grommets

then i thought whats the point

and went and got a surfboard

but chines are the answer!

7

after reading that i think i’ll make a finless what ever u wanta it but that would be pretty cool seeing a veral kickflip to rock to fakey man now i got try to make somthing like that but how should i do the rails and how big should it be desisons desisons but eps is wut i think i’ll use and mabey channles mabey

8

Hey Paul,

I know! what was the point? Fun, nonetheless :smiley:

I don’t know why I never saw it before but chines look very similar to bodyboard rails, if not the same! I never really got into it but didn’t morey propose that those rails sucked the board into the face? Maybe we can get a “Dynamics” thread about chines/BBoard rails and why they work.

Cheers,

Rio

9

Hola Rio,

You think a lot! Good. Thats how my little board came to existance.

Take that planer and sculpt the right lines to guide the water tru them concaves.

Enjoy!

Can’t wait to see what you are gonna create.

Soul

10

ah yes but it was still easier to ride a booger standing up if it has fins

they dont float me enough now!

but try drop knee

also if i was really into that buzz d grind down a set of g5s to about half size

and take out the centre fin

and try that first

it would be cheaper

my surfing buddies dont know it

but i keep a bogger in the boot

for those unsurfable days

barrel closeouts

or wedgy shorebreaks

sometimes the river breaks get so heavy here when they are in flood

it pushes out the shingle into deep water and its sometimes breaks on to dry bank

but the catch is the river water is running out so fast it lifts you up the waves

so everydrop os a free fall

not necessarly big

but deffinately heavy

id be talking to skimboarders

those guys ca do almost anything

very thin rails

11

this is just a picture i put together i 1 minute but i think thats wut i’ll end up doin (the peace thats sticking out isnt a fin its a part of the deck to act like a fin but to let me still do powerslides popshoves and what ever u can think of

12

one of the best in the world was and probably still is Chris Won from the westside…Benn blowingmides here for 20+ years

He’s gone hollywood though with his big Blue Crush debut… He the one with peroxided hair…

The twin nose twin tail board has been out for some time now and yes it was designed for skaters, snowboarders and wakeboarders in mind. I think the kite boarders may have started the trend though.

Gavin Sutherland was riding one in a T&C airshow contest many years back. they seem to fit that venue perfectly.

13

Where can I see?

14

cheak out www.tomwegenersurfboards.com and look at his alaias, ect.

no fins, all rail work.

peace.matt

15
Quote:

Where can I see?

type in the words

“gemini” or “gemini surfboards” in the 'advanced search" facility at the left of the dicussion fprums page …

[also type in "posts by oneula’ …or just leave that part blank , even ]

cheers

ben

16

Hi Janklow,

I have spent some time thinking about htis too, and I have come up with an interesting concept that is somehow inbetween being finned and finless.

I know this sounds silly, and it’s kind of hard to explain in words. I’ll have to find my original sketches (this was about 1 1/2 yrs ago), or sketch them again.

as soon as I have some Visual aid I’ll post again with explanations.

d

17

We’re talking about a symetrical board that rides as well forwards as it does backwards? I’ve wondered a lot about when someone would find a way to make that practical. Snowboards do it on fairly fluid surfaces… I don’t know how much like skateboarding the board would be if you had to keep it on a rail the entire time… You’d essentially want to design a board that tracks, by traditional standards… yes? Maybe it would benefit from a really parallel outline.

18

In terms of outlines on a double-ended surfskate I’ve been thinking about something like the CI Flyer from the center point back x 2 as a double ender, with its parallel rails and break to the tail, with flat center, a concave forward and aft of center (and maybe a slightly flanged downward rail at the break for pivot/penetration?) and something sorta close to a 3 stage rocker (?)

maybe some channel 'caves to soften up landings (wakeboards) and enhance direction and lift?

with maybe 3 finlets at center and the rail fins between the extreme corners and the current thruster rail positions-- thinking along the lines of Bonzer 3 runners, but mounted backwards and with a tiny bit slopier edge than the upright edge on those-- cant? toe? profile? I dunno. It should be able to touch the water when you’re on rail and not throw you. Maybe just go ahead and dedicate to being able to rail with the forward rail fin engaged…

This is the object of the exercise as far as I’m concerned: mount such lower profile fins on more conc’ed rails, in the traditional thruster fin positions, with cant, toe etc, at symmetrical fin positions fore and aft (insert lots of skateboarding switch and slidearound moves here)

– Chris Miller, Christian Hosoi, like that – hurricane floaters, nose slides bringing the back around, cess slides, airs (tuck-knee), switch bottom turns, ollies etc

where skateboarding used to be when it had a radical surf style late 80’s early 90’s –

I could be wrong but I think current wakeboards’ design are going to contribute a lot in terms of control surface concepts, but bigger

just meditations I’ve been through

19

Have you guys seen the UFO (unidentified finless object) that Frankenreiter was riding a few years ago? I saw the board at a travelling surf culture show. It had triple channels that deepened into long finlike structures toward the tail. It’s on some video the name of which I can’t recall. Frankenreiter rode it well but didn’t make it look easy.

20

Yeah, several of us have seen it–it’s really a finned board though, and it looks like it surfs pretty bad at that–there’s a big deep lesson in that tail too