I don’t know man. I’ve seen Roy’s videos and the wide noses of his boards do in fact “lift” out of the water when he is going faster and he rides from the narrow tail. He said nothing more than that so I don’t see how it could be an “error”. Now, the noses of his boards do have extreem rocker to help generate lift from the air, that’s a caveat, but doesn’t make his statement false - just might mean that the wide nose on a board needs to be like the wide noses on his boards to work in the manner he claimed.
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My experience of 51yrs of surfing, and 48yrs of shaping, is the basis for my comments and contributions.
great
but very little experience at using and being polite on internet forums
Finally, a few good ideas:
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Don’t feed the trolls!
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Substantiate your claims.
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Think before you post.
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Use your common sense.
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Go surfing.
thanks for gracing us with your wisdom
pity no one actually learnt anything from your posts
are you getting board and just want to start another argument?
The error lies in not understanding what is being observed.
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I don’t know man. I’ve seen Roy’s videos and the wide noses of his boards do in fact “lift” out of the water when he is going faster and he rides from the narrow tail. He said nothing more than that so I don’t see how it could be an “error”. Now, the noses of his boards do have extreem rocker to help generate lift from the air, that’s a caveat, but doesn’t make his statement false - just might mean that the wide nose on a board needs to be like the wide noses on his boards to work in the manner he claimed.
but the noses are so far out of the water it’s just causing the tail to sit lower and drag, slowing him down.
if he got farther up on the nose they might pick up, but still, I doubt you could turn it
did you see the one where the kneeboarder was on the same wave and just going so much faster than him, making the sections and doing turns, and still faster than the fastest surfboard on the planet, while roy’s big 17 footer couldn’t make it?
but I guess it didn’t count because that was a kneeboard
he was probally using vortex fins…yeah…that’s it…
…and, have you ever seen him turn one?
who cares if you have the best of both worlds, if you can only surf when no one else is out to avoid running people over
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I’m just not inclined to enlighten either of you.
wtf
what are you doing in this thread then ?
Your advice has some merit. You would do well to follow it yourself.
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Now, if Roy’s and your belief were generally true, then the ‘‘best of both worlds’’ would be a full blown Waimea gun.
Quote:Not necessarily Bill, the kind of board I am talking about looks like this. . . . and it isn’t a Waimea gun. . . . . waimea guns are much narrower, this one is 26 inches wide. The nose of the board generates a lot of lift at low speeds, at higher speeds the nose lifts out of the water and the board rides on the flatter narrower tail section, reducing wetted surface area when it isn’t needed.
sarcasm is the lowest form of wit
havent you got anything better to do
then to hassle roy cuz he like wide noses.?
all fish have wide noses ,what about them?
in seven slaves there busting airs like crazy on a wide nose narrow tail lost fish
true! i should
its in the forum rules btw
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Roy, just out of curiosity - have you tried stand-up paddling any of your larger models, if only to see how they behave in that mode? Your Starboard, Dragonboard, and probably some of the other designs appear likely candidates…
-Samiam
Hi Samiam,
I haven’t tried the SUP business, possibly if the Starboard and Dragonboard were made thicker and more buoyant they would do the job, as I have been building them so far they are not buoyant enough to stand up on when they are not moving, so I imagine that this would make stand up paddling difficult. It’s an easy matter to make those boards thicker though (presently they are around 2 and a half inches or less). I do have a 9’6" which is 4 inches thick, which with the parallel profile makes it resemble an IRB. . . . I can stand up on that one when it isn’t moving easily, so it might be a candidate. One thing that I have noticed (please correct me if I’m wrong) is that SUP boards tend to be very flat in the rocker and full in the planshape. . . .I assume that this is for stability. … .
I wonder how Hicksy is getting on with his HWS SUP ?
Being helpful to some, by sharing knowledge. And by not sharing knowledge with some, help them to maintain their blissful state. Go back and pay attention to your list. It would be nice if you took the chip off your shoulder as well.
well, thats actually Mikes list
i think you really need to read your posts more carefully Bill.
it seems pretty arogant how you come across sometmes.
ive got nothing to criticize about your knowledge or experience
Just the way you share it.(re chip on shoulder)
rather then saying such and such is wrong and starting another boring argument
you only need to state your opinion on wider tails, and how they effect performance.
which is the point of this thread.
im sure most would listen and digest your advice/experience.
stay positive and constructive.
simple observation!
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But the noses are so far out of the water it’s just causing the tail to sit lower and drag, slowing him down.
Quote:Incorrect http://www.olosurfer.com/VortX.wmv I think that this little clip shows what I mean about the nose giving lots of lift on takeoff and then lifting to get the tail working
if he got farther up on the nose they might pick up, but still, I doubt you could turn it
Quote:They turn easily. . . any board with that much planshape curve turns easily. . . .
did you see the one where the kneeboarder was on the same wave and just going so much faster than him, making the sections and doing turns, and still faster than the fastest surfboard on the planet, while roy’s big 17 footer couldn’t make it?
Quote:Firstly, I was politely stalling to give the the drop in guy some room
Secondly, I made the wave once the drop in kneeboarder got out of the way Thirdly, The board was an 11'9", not a 17 footer. Here's the clip anyway: <a href="http://www.olosurfer.com/D11-9s.wmv" class="bb-url">http://www.olosurfer.com/D11-9s.wmv</a>…and, have you ever seen him turn one?
who cares if you have the best of both worlds, if you can only surf when no one else is out to avoid running people over
Bro, you are not really onto it, I surf with the regular crew at my homebreak, crowds vary from none to around a hundred at times, and I haven't run anyone over ever , although I could have run that kneeborder overif I hadn't stalled
As for turning, the boards turn very easily, just because I don't do radical gouges doesn't men that they are not turning
Now if you don't mind, I would prefer that you don't turn this thread into a thread all about myself, it's actually about tail width.
…to generate speed, a wider tail interacts with the surf that youll surf and your skills…
…so, a summer no hollow waves, flat sections, etc, better to go with a wider one…
…to catch waves easy, the area+volume (in this situation) in the tail are important…
…talking about Pipeline, check Felipe Pomar riding the Pipe in a mounstrous board, and K Slater surfing the same day with a 6 10 contemporary thruster, and both surfing incredible…
Paul,
I suggest that you reconsider who “started an arguement.” My first post was to affirm the content of the post by LeeDD.
Go back and read his post #8. Therein lies the answer. There is a point of dimminishing return, with respect to wider tails. (Depending on what you want to do.) As food for thought, find some photos of Bob Simmons’ ultra wide tailed boards that were acknowledged by many, as the fastest boards of the time. I don’t advocate that design path, But I understand his design, and why his boards worked. As to my “style”, you can probably tell that I don’t respond well to ignorance, stupidity, or in your face attitude. Easy to stay on my good side, just don’t display any of the former. At your suggestion, I’ll try to mellow my comments. Respectfully, I request the same of you.
my observations:
I saw in surfermag videos, its probably not up anymore since they re did them so you can’t download them to your hard drive (unless you know how and do some hacking). They had this one called ’ longboarders charge pipe’
and its good pipe (like OH+ ). They were using 9 foot performance / classic longboard shapes (no guns / semi guns). I saw well over half of them got stuffed and they were good longboaders.
That said, people of amazing skill like Tudor / Bonga etc. can probably ride really good pipe on a true longboard (not a gun / semi gun).
Also look at guns tail width, most I’ve seen are tight / small swallows or pins / rounded pins . . . and guns are designed to be fast . . .
Then you take a look at fish . . . and they are fast . . .
plus depends on the conditions and type of surfing you hope to accomplish . . .
that also is dependent upon the skill of the surfer . . .
Two Cents:
a question engineered
to be answered
yes or no.
over simplyfied response A. or B.
not adequate information
for the question requires a broad reply.
All generalizations are false,including this one.
samoan guy
so fa … was so good
his chinese cousin:
how fa worked in the tiger balm factoryshipping department.
the brother that moved to germany
Too Fa.
at what point does a wide tail become slower?
how fast is fast enough
at what point is a tail too wide for skoo.
the fastest board in the history of mankind…
topo speed of surfboard on wave,though intoxicating,is not 200mph.
the first fish surfboard prehistorickly speaking was a perch.
make a board that goes like a shark
or mebe A stick fish,is faster…
the problem with fast boards narrow is that narrow tails limit turning response.direction changing .
wide tails spin sid-o’s add
more fins slow down the ultimate top speed.
waves dont go 60 mph.
stating opinions is not starting arguements.
arguements are when people dont choose to reply rationaly
when angry prople dismiss the people out of hand
who express conflicting opinions.
ask a stupid question get a stupid answer
my dad said that.To me.
anybody ever heard that one?
posing a question is a fine science:
ask a school kid if they did their homework
ask your wife a pertinent question
ask a politician anything
so to answer is added tail width faster
yes and no is appropriate.
how fast is fast is a serious qualifier.
how wider is wider is necessary.
added tail width is 1-17 inches if the tail width is pintail to17"".
added tail width measured 1’up is maybe 4-10’’
then tail width relative to max width and it’s relationship to middle of plan shape is a necessary determinator
right and wrong are such subjective terms
and nebulous as well
objectfully speaking
we must come to specific terms in order to agree
and in a design criterion discussion
agreement is easy when you have a common lexicon and the questions are well defined.
arguing is a full time job best left to people who like it…
…ambrose…
The fastest board in the history of mankind is not at issue.
…guns or semis have narrowed tails for control not for generate speed…
Fernando,
the narrower tail of a gun reduces drag, thereby increasing speed. There is improved ‘control’, (actually stability) over a similar board with a wide tail. The primary goal in narrowing the tail is speed. However having an extreme, drawn out narrow tail can also be uncontrollable. The challenge is to strike a balance in your design to obtain maximum speed, and maximum control. Tail width is only one of many variables that have to be considered in the design of gun style boards, intended for larger faster waves. That being said, it IS possible to design an extremely fast, controllable gun, with a relatively wide tail, when compared to ‘‘normal’’ guns. It can get confusing, eh?
What it all comes back to is: what shape will allow maximum control at a given speed?
For small waves with no power, wider tails will (otherwise you’ll sink them when trying to turn).
In big powerful waves, unless you are pretty heavy and have very powerful legs, you will never do a bottom turn: too much surface area for the speed, you’ll go very fast in a straight line and for a short time. Then, either you and the board will get airborne (but soon air resistance will slow you down since you won’t have any more driving force behind you) or you’ll have lost control and been swallowed long ago.
Theoretical questions are fine but what’s the use in actual situations?