One of the things I would love to see in The Board Building Industry is some real scientific methods to test a design. We have used a hit and miss approach since the first Polynesian put a craft into the ocean to ride waves.
The Big Boys could pull resources and get some smart commputer geek to write a progam to model a wave and then model how a craft would work in that virtual wave.
The wave program would have to be flexible allowing for many different waves and levels of energy and size waves. There might already be something out there that would only need some modifications for surfing. Marine architects have programs like this for all sorts of ships and and other craft. How much would yoube willing to spend to have real data on your new design?
Think about this The surfer could load his or her info into a program age ,wight years surfing ability and so on. Then add the type of waves you are surfing regularly. The Surfer could also get a board made to optimize a shape for travel plans. Say you surf normally in jacksonvill Florida and you plan on surfing El Salvador. The program would factor in the average waves in El Salvador ask if you want this Board also as your daily Jacksonville Board and then spit out a couple of design options. You then work with your shaper to put in the fine details and wait for a Board that is truly made for you. For how and where you surf.
Then again … Is it better to just build something then spend the money on hype and hope the coolness factor takes over?
when Slater & Co. get that perfect mechanical wave going, might be a good benchmark.
I’d love to ride a perfect wave for 30 minutes and personally identify what works and what sucks ass. Once you have a perfect flex, you’ll want a perfect quiver with different flexes, outlines, endless…Until then, I’ll be snapping boards, surfing leftovers, getting my bell rung on the inside…
With pow skiing, there’s a universe of preference; some days more tail or more rockers, more shovel, etc… There’s a ton of preference that drives water sports…among “cool branding”. That database would be way too complex to spit out the ideal board or quiver.
Magic boards exist, but I think has more to do with the conditions and the person riding it…
The complexity of what you suggest is mind boggling. Yes there are finite element programs which are used to model structural problems and fluid dynamics, and yes some of these can model complex scenarios and they can also be adapted to model different values for a variety of parameters. Unfortunately both these tasks require considerable computing power and considerable technical expertise which is only really available in aerospace and automotive - and however big the surfboard industry thinks it is it just isn’t anywhere near those boys. What is currently impossible even for the big boys (for practical purposes) is to model complex systems with many values of many parameters.
The development of quality multi-piece boards for surf travel.
Arrive at your surf spot, hmmm, few feet overhead and reeling, think I’ll go with the RP tail, longer midsection, and narrower nose.
Next day, swells dropped, find yourself facing an average beachie. Whip out the squash tail, shorter midsection, and wider nose section.
It’s absolutely coming. As soon as 3D printers reach two more levels of sophistication and affordability, probably more then five years out, less then ten years from now.
Once 3D single piece surfboard printing is relatively inexpensive and easily accessible to any consumer by merely picking out/designing the desired shape and piping it to the local 3d printing retailer, the big manufacturers will have no choice but to shift R&D focus to the much more sophisticated 3D printing production of multi-piece surfboards, requiring a significant capitol investment in new machining, which means companies like Solomon (their baaack) and Burton (maybe why Burton is trying to sell CI?) seizing early control of that market.
But for the teeming masses whose surfboard is just the tool they use for air launches, a multi-piece Board In A Box that can fit in the back of their Prius or WRX will be the Holy Grail.
Sure, us custom surfboard aficionados will still be riding our custom made, single piece ‘antiques’…until it’s time to jump on the plane for a surf trip, then we’ll covertly glide the 'Box" from the corner recess and slip it into the back of our minivan for the drive to the airport…lol
One of the things I would love to see in The Board Building Industry is some real scientific methods to test a design. We have used a hit and miss approach since the first Polynesian put a craft into the ocean to ride waves.
[/quote]
Why? You don't have fun surfing boards made the "old fashioned" way?
Surfing is just fun time, why do scientists and high tech have to be involved?
OK - probably not very ‘nice’ - maybe I could, err ‘rephrase’ this to say they don’t paddle in my line when they are caught or at least learn some of the basic ‘don’t drop in’ Sam Reid code - no? It would be cool if the whole global-surf-indiustrial complex would go away - “boo hoo the old days were so much better” - they WERE less crowded. Thats not gonna happen either. Reminds me of Dora in Surfer’s The Movie. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3M0NX1lcCiQ
I was thinking of trying to get a law passed that allowed real grizzled core veterans to shoot SUP’s with a sniper rifle but I could only get 3 signatures on the petition, everyone thought I was joking - alas thats probably ‘crossing the line’ again… reminds me of Hitler’s surf trip ruined: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjkv29Y5NhE
Oh wait a minute - you mean BOARD DESIGN right? I dunno about this endless math wave model thingie, seems improbable. I know from years of workig with my shaper that the peculiarities of my ‘style’ (if you can call it that) are a HUGE factor in determining what I like. How can you quanify the way you shift your weight around and your stance such that the software knows how you dynamically use the board? Seems highly unlikely.
What I’d really like to see:
Lots of super gunny Bonzers with sick resin tint work.
Power surfing - heavy rail carves and no flicking.
My new T-shirt design “Don’t get mad, We’re just stupid” takes off BIG so I can retire and live on Panitan until I get malaria.
Speaking of all that - don’t get mad, iI am just trying to make someone smile, hopefully it worked…
Groms in developing countries who shred on destroyed boards. Jerry Lopez getting barreled deep on board known for mushy knee-high days…
That fine line where logistics ends and phenomena take over is pretty much surfing, why I paddle out. I guess I don’t want to know that my board scientifically can’t do x, y, z, …but I want to believe that I can accomplish it as an athlete.
The problem is that managers think that you can model everything. In theory this is true.
But when you start with modelling very detailed stuff, you need to know more boundary conditions and know these more accurately than for simpeler models.
Garbadge in = garbadge out.
You don’t only need the models, you also need the data.
As I read this I was thinking, “What exactly is a surfer of average ability as opposed to an expert?” I have moments when I feel like an expert and other when I feel like abeginner. I was thinking of the breaks I surf. On the very same day one wave will pitch and barrel and another will mush and and back off.
Also, I worked in the boat building industry for several years . The builder I worked for did what are called “one offs” (custom) ocean racing sailboats. Despite all the computer modeling, you’d be suprised how much “hit or miss” and “seat of the pants” decision making goes on. Plus boats are in a less dynamic environment- they are meant to go in a straight line for long periods at a time. Air flow over the sails is relatively stable. A typical ride on a surfboard, say a take off to bottom turn to stall to barrel to cutback to foam rebound…so much more is going on…
In the end I think if you look at it scientifically, the best approach to surfboard design is “hit or miss” or what I like to call the “reiterative process.” That’s a fancy technical term that makes it sound more intelligent.
ps I actually mistyped and wrote “hit AND miss” which is probably my personal process…
pps oh, you wrote “hit AND miss” no wonder you would like a computer to help you out!
I would think that anything the computer modeling shows would be thrown out the window as soon as I moved my back foot about 2" up. Or even the difference of weighting the rear foot for a heavy turn.
As far as things I'd like to see....... just a little more of the good stuff and a little less of the B.S. in everyday life. Todays world is pretty damn good for most of us. A little more waves/travel/cash/free time, etc. would be awesome though! And maybe less TapOutAfflictionEdHardy influence in our society.
Well I think modeling and alanysis has its place as well as the hit or miss approach. The problem with the pure experimental approach is it takes more time and money, this is true in the entire composite industry, not just surfing. The more you can do with modeling the better, it doesn’t have to always be perfect scenarios. In a composite structure there are lots of programs out there to adjust laminate stifness and strength for example. These should be used a lot more. I posted a link to an online composite workshop that is going on this week. It included a lot of these programs. I’m not sure if anyone from here was interested.
One thing I can tell you though, finishing parts…it’s a time suck. China factories can have 2/3 of their factories just devoted to this. So if you want to compete at retail you have to figure out a better way to finish, because those China/Thailand boards are finished great, because they don’t have to worry about time or labor costs.
Btw we all need to realize that because of surfings culture we have been one of the more resilient industries to outsourcing. Not saying we are immune. But look at other boardsports and well over 90 percent of most hard goods are made overseas: Standup paddleboards, wake boards, kiteboards, ect… So lets keep innovating at the grassroots level, the craftsmanship and diversity of products is what keeps things domestic.
But back to the original point, modeling can be useful, like everything else it’s a tool. It doesn’t have to be perfect. We don’t have to numerically replicate a wave, it’s more important to isolate variables and theoretically understand what’s going on. Like for example, we can use modeling to determine the stiffness and strength of a standard poly/poly board, now that we now theoretically what that stiffness is we can try to match it using different laminates.
Anyway that’s just my take on it…
If any of you guys are looking for a good read about the surfing industry take a look at the the Salt and the Suits, it will leave little doubt that all the money really is in clothing…sad but true.
A poem lovely as a tree.
