I’m thinking about buying Shape3d. I have played with the demo-version and I think I have a pretty good handle on how it works. I use a lot of 3D software in my day job. I’ve also worked for big 3d software companies. I have a good understanding of this stuff. Shape3d seems very useful for designing boards as it’s written specifically for this.
My goal is to have my shapes cut and then glass them at home. I’ll only be doing Epoxy work as it seems to be a better choice for a garage level production.
What I am wondering is if Shape3d is the way to go? I can model a board in another program, but I’m concerned about getting the data into a format that one of the cutting shops will take. I live in San Diego and there seems to be a bunch of guys offering this service. But, I’m betting they are busy running there shops and don’t want to tinker with a three or four board a year account.
I’m not sure how much it costs, but if you’re only doing 3-4 boards a year…shape those puppies yourself.
Hear me out. I have an advanced understanding of visualizing and designing things on a computer. I have no shaping experience. I want to finish and glass the boards myself and put in all the details.
What do you guys think about skipping the learning curve of mastering hand shaping and instead using a machine? I mean no disrespect to the craft of hand shaping but I have already mastered the computer. Why not leverage those skills. Please note I am not claiming a wealth of surfboard design knowledge. I just want to get my own program going where I do the production of my own boards. Hobby level. Maybe, build a couple for friends and family.
There are plenty of shapers that aren’t even touching their boards. They go from the cutting shop to the glass shop and then to the rack. Why should I pick up a planer? I read shapers on sways incouraging beginners to not use a surform as a crutch and pick up the planer. Why not put down the planer and pick up the mouse?
I think that you’d be better off using the aps 3000 or akushaper software and finding an aps 3000 or another machine with the newer shape3d software that can convert it. Shape3d isn’t cheap but at the same time its worth it if you own a machine. It also takes a while to fully understand what the design on the screen is going to look like once its cut.
I am also going to buy a 1yr license Shape3D pretty soon.
After the learning curve and after 1 year the freeware version is likely to suit me fine.
YOu dont have to mow foam to get experience…you just need to Shape3D one, two or three see the outcome and decide
whether to glass or not.
As to being a small guy(production wise), it my understanding that most of the ‘Shaping Centers’ wont have a problem time wise
cutting a blank for you…but professional glassing may be a different.
I’ll be using Shape3d specifically because there are several in my area and the AkuShaper/APS3000 has locations 75 or more miles away from me…which
is a bit of a hassle.
What my BIG question is …before I start is … Will the Shape3D centers offer glassing or steer your board to a glasser where it will get glassed promptly instead of enduring a 2 month or longer wait???.. I am in North Orange County, CA.
AKU shaper (or APS 3000) is free. Shape 3D isn’t. Have you tried AKU? Don’t know the price of shape3d, but it is hard to beat free.
As for using machines as opposed to doing the shaping yourself, whatever. It is your choice, do what you want. I don’t know for sure, but I think the machining costs ~50 per board at the aps3000 shape near me.
I would suggest doing at least some by hand because, 1) it makes you appreciate the process so much more, 2) it is fun, 3) chicks dig it, and 4) dudes dig it too. I’ve only done two boards, both manually, both the low tech (or slow tech) method (no planer, just surform, sandpaper, and screens, and a hand planer for the stringer, grand total <$50 for “tools”). First one took…I don’t want to talk about it. It was from 5’8" micro-mal from a big rotten longboard. Second one took around 3-4 hours including tracing the template, cutting, and shaping. Granted, on the second I was working from a blank with the hotwire pretty close to what I wanted for the finished product. That made it a lot faster. It is an awesome learning experience, and the end products aren’t too bad. For the second one, I played on the computer for many hours before settling on the final product, but then made it by hand. That way you get to do the computer thing, and then the shaping thing. Best of both worlds.
We have both an aps3000 and a self designed and built machine that uses shape3d. It usually takes more than a few boards to get used to either software when designing boards from scratch. If you can do it in three, good on you. If not, hopefully the cutting center will review your files before it gets expensive. Good luck.
I was mostly trying to stir the pot to get more info regarding my skipping hand shaping. I’m going to build a bunch of boards and see if I can make some good ones. I really want to handshape, and vacuum bag, and all that stuff, but I have to start somewhere. I was thinking I’d take advantage of my strength with 3d software.
AKA - thanks for the advice. If you are the AKA in AKA surfboards here in San Diego then you are class act board builders. I will plan(budget) on screwing up a few. Thanks for taking the time to pass on some knowledge.
My thought is that Shape3d outputs to more machines so the time invested in dailing in a library of shapes in Shape3d will be worth it.
Maybe, I should check and see if they’ll cut my first go on the cheapest blank they sell?
Background: shaped in the back yard since '69, glassed three akushaped boards for someone else, got akushaper 2 weeks ago and sitting on the machine in the evenings, I think I can make it do what the machine needs.
But I got the program (freeeeee, of course) to design my next brain fart, a hollow woody.
I’ve told a lot of guys that come to me for boards that if they watch once, and I watch the next two times, they will have the skills to make a board that surfs better than they do. Nowadays a Makita knock-off is $40 on the 'bay. A decent Ryobi is $60 at Home Depot. The other hand tools and materials are change compared to the machine prices.
I think you ought to do a few by hand, at least until you get comfy with the physical aspect of it. Sure just about all the production guys are having their blanks machined, then finished by ghosts who use a template to sign the Big Guy’s name…
But I still think you should get into the process for your own enjoyment, so you can appreciate what goes on, and to see the shape “grow” from the blank as you work it. Myself, I don’t do this for money, I need to keep in practice and I enjoy the creative part of it. It’s gravy that once in a while I can scrape enough from it to build my next board.
Why buy Shape3D when there is an adequate free product available? You have the software experience, so you get to decide. But try the APS3000 or akushaper, then see if the cost of the other justifies the expense. And report back to all of us, 'kay?
I agree with Burnsie. this thread makes me sad too. tell you what monkey I will give you a blank to shape yourself for free so long as you dont do it on a machine, but with your own two hands.
Then glass it and surf it. I pretty much guarantee it won’t be your last one, but even if it is you’ll have a story to tell your grandchildren.
Maybe someday one of them will be a shaper too. Maybe the last hand-shaper, who knows.
Your generosity is amazing. I’m into hand shaping as well. I’m currently gathering the tools and will be making some templates soon. As a matter of fact, the cost to have blanks cut maybe the reason to get the handshape pipeline in place. Thanks for the gesture.
On the flip side how many people on sways are interested in computer design software for building surfboards?
I spend heaps of time designing boards on APS/Akua or the old free version of Shape 3d, I have even used CAD. But you will never really understand line, form and flow until you mow some foam. To eyeball a line as you shape it and realise that what you thought would flow is incongrous to the shape.
With a machine you always get what you want…Thats not always a good thing.
I agree with Burnsie. this thread makes me sad too. tell you what monkey I will give you a blank to shape yourself for free so long as you dont do it on a machine, but with your own two hands.
Then glass it and surf it. I pretty much guarantee it won’t be your last one, but even if it is you’ll have a story to tell your grandchildren.
Maybe someday one of them will be a shaper too. Maybe the last hand-shaper, who knows.
(Oops there we go, getting sad again. Sorry!)
Hey you guys, I know how you feel, I use the computer as a design tool, but have always enjoyed the hands on aspect of board building. My favorite two topics in school were Computers and Shop Class. You can’t be blind to technology, but you don’t have to turn your back on tradition and working with your hands either. The hand shaper/ machine debate always reminds me of the “Last gunfighter ballad” by Johnny Cash- especially the last verse!
i would check with the cutters and make sure they’ll cut boards for you. some cutters don’t want to work with hobby guys b/c the guys who make a living at shaping complain about hobby guys using the machine to cut out the middle man.
One of my biggest gripes with firewire was that they have not brought there custom program online. That’s their prerogative they have a business to run. I don’t see what I need in there stock line of boards. It’s mostly volume issues as I’m not 5’9/150pounds.
I have been riding quads lately and I’m very excited about that design thread. What I’d really like to be able to do is take my templates down to the cutter get a few cut in a few different flavors. Stringerless for example. Take them home glass/vacbag them different ways and see if I could get Firewire/Bert like qualities. And, put the fins where I want them. What do you think?
There maybe ways to render a higher quality board, for myself, if I can tinker on it myself. I’m finding that most shapers don’t have the bandwidth to tinker with an over educated customer. That’s their prerogative they have a business to run.
I work all day designing things on the computer and I have been doing it for 15 years. I think that this is an asset I can leverage that will render consistent shapes. I could be wrong and with a little time handshaping I may be able to find a more flexible build path. One which won’t be dependent on cutting services with businesses to run.
Oneula, my firewire still looks new. It has all it’s pop and has been ridden hard, stored in a hot car, and I even jumped on it. I can’t say that about my last batch of customs from a local shaper. There quads though, and thats been exciting. Plus, I’m trying to get on the Sunova List!
