Polyethylene does not bond well (surface energy) with many compounds including epoxy resin.
Don’t know if teraphthalate improves that – need to look that up.
Might be another reason why they use it under FG cloth.
Yeah, all the stuff you do is interesting, but damned hard to get in the U.S. and pricey when shipping is factored in.
Does the PET cloth actually impregnate with resin like fiberglass does? Or is it more like steel in concrete? What about using tinted or pigmented resin? How does it look, then?
The article said free lapped on the deck. I would have thought a cut lap necessary. How does it drape? Thanks for putting this up for us.
all the best
(topping thread – also following this with interest)
This is cool. I know a couple few years ago a company (name escapes me right now) announced the release of PET structural foams for composites made from recycled bottles. My understanding was that this is the skin material in Firewire’s Helium construction(?) Is there any way you can confirm or deny? If so, it would seem to make sense to pair it with a lamination of the same material.
Keep up the good work!
Bert Burger, did a podcast with Surf Splendor just recently and he discusses this product you mentioned here in detail.
Well worth a listen.
Hello Sanded; first I want to congratulate you for your seek and invest to try new materials that in the end would benefit all if its demonstrates or validate the changing.
-Several years ago in this forum were threads about “new stuff” etc; but nothing new really; only new approaches of old techniques of windsurf or other labors techniques (like infusion etc)
Then we had the “Green eco” threads,
Part of my opinion about all that and still I am maintaining, is that a modern shape can perform almost all in a wave. You really can put a HP board at 12 o`clock if you are average good but most are not or do not know what to do in the recovery and fall out of the board or if the waves are large and steeped hence fast and tubular, is not viable to proceed 12 o´clock…
The problem is in the fatigue of the materials and the board durability however, very light cores with hard shells have been demonstrating that in some range or styles of boards cannot perform good (so tweaks were mandatory) as the conventional materials and the fatigue occurs in the end. Add a limitation in aesthetics; color work, etc.
Then there are the physics laws etc and that are facts.
What I said was that we really could see a big change if in a Future we have totally new materials (all synthetic) so we can dispense with the conventional shape of a board to start with a completely new approach (like imagining the music without actually playing an instrument)
If not is like beaten a dead horse; I mean, with the way we apply hydrodynamics we have the best as possible shape refinament (but also you see plenty of hippy shapers et all doing obsolete shapes and stuff…because for many is not high performance or durability but coolness and vibes)
-Batteries, spark plugs two OBSOLETES things from XIX that you cannot get rid still after all these decades.
For now seem that all still with obsolete cores trying to reinvent the wheel with shell materials…but far long of subtantial new stuff as mentioned.
No doubt that I applause what you guys are trying with your path and could be the start of a certain path for a promising Future.
-May be some of us need a bit more insight about those clothes. With what are better to workk alone and what are better to work hybrid with fiberglass. May be some video clips. Fair responses regarding issues with color techniques; different resins; not ideal glassing rooms; very high humidity conditions to work etc.
That…is a badass link. Shared it with others a few times before even posting this thumbs up.
Speak to Timmy at Revchem, we deal with them a bit these days
We turn it into a polyester style yarn which bonds well
it soaks resin in quite well and tints see rocket ace’s insta post
way after Bert left… yes you are on the right track…
Yes there is a lot happening in the composite industry that most surfboard manufacturers would overlook just because you have to change the processes slightly.
Thats why we have focused on cloths that will not need to much different tecniques but has always been regarded as “Alternative cloths” - due to colour/materials
The PET will fuzz if sanded (not as bad a Innegra) so we look at this product for the big guys as a layer on the deck under glass so it wont be a big change in production and easy change over.
We are taking plastic out of the enviroment / oceans and making board last longer so hopefully it will take off!
PS: we are working on foam … but a long way to go…
PET is not same thing as PE. PET is also call saturated polyester, it’s the polyester use for textile. it’s use for long time in composits: Xynol, Diolen,etc… are PET fiber used as cheap kevlar to add toughness. Many guys use it in boat building mostly to protect wood. You can find it for cheap at textil store, from heavy closed tissus to open wave windows curtains and scrims. It’s use as full length printed deco on some boards like Inlayz. You can find it also as spun bond even in composit world like polyester finish veil, also volumized with microspore like coremat, soric, or other bulkers.
Mechanically, compare to fiberglass, PET is lighter, have lower stiffness and higher elongation to break so need lower forces but higher energy to break. It’s like polyamide fiber, innegra and other “nylon”, a bit heavier and stiffer. Can be use to give “body” to thin fiberglass skin or to improve epoxy glue layer between stiff materials.
As many plastic materials bond of resin is not really good, so impact fatigue strengh is not really good even more with “stiff” lam resin.
I’m going to try that. The people I deal with up here in the Northwest have no or little knowledge of most Surf related materials. We’ve got a lot of YouTube Shapers and board builders up here. Their knowledge is limited to google. There are a couple of guys up here though that are way ahead of the curve. It you could PM me Timmy’s info, last name , etc I’ll call down to Bloomington and see if I can make contact. Lowel