Reverb, if you go to the ASP website and check out Kieren Perrow’s profile you will see that Yorky is listed as one of his shapers! just thought I’d mention that seeing as you were asking him if he was a hacker.
hey MrJ
its always like this, it doesn't matter if you've shaped 1000s or 1 board, if you ask a question you get bashed its a shame!
pauluk
Too true. That’s why I rarely stick my head up.
Mr J
I agree I’ve seen some really clean shapes from Yorky . He’s no hacker.
Cheers
Mooneemick
Hey Reverb
I think Yorky is doing as you suggested , researching the design principles to gain knowledge.
Could you tell us what your take is on the setup of the side runners , seems like you have done a few.
My board is a 6’6" round pin with a 14 7/8" tail , got any suggestions on placement.
Cheers
Mooneemick
Reverb always seems to want to bring someone down.
Make sure you dont either. a) shape it too fast. or b) use too much resin or anything in anyway different from the way he does it or you are just a hack.
The smartest of people will ask questions from people in the know or otherwise to come to outcomes they desire. It is only stupidity and ego to fumble around blindly when a simple question can put you on the right track.
Cant wait to see the finished product mate.
Daren
Well reverb…shove it up your arse!
…That was my inital thought, and im running with it.
huh’’ bonzer insnt it a ausie slang seems like a bit of a right to continue
this thread with ausie rights so piss off reverb
yorky loking at the concaves thats being done they seem very much like the stuf
my shapers were playing with mid sixtys at the old factory in duke st sunshine beach all been removed now
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ok Aussie fellas,
easy a bit…
one of the guys that say that I always trying to take down etc is not true
most of my post are to provide help to the newbie or backyarder
check em out then let me know if Im not talking true…
-but for a guy like MrJ say a pro one
that not take the labor seriously and seems that only know how to shape 1 type of board…well
I dunno.
in the other comment I put specs that are very important
you only needs to follow the lines of the intended planshape.
in this comment first picture
you see a semigun with the cluster forward as most semis
may be in the pict looks more forward than really is…
second pict shows the srunners only and main channels blended with the tail rocker in a modern mini egg
next its me riding a bonzer type design
Yes Reverb you do contribute a lot to this site.
But I think you a misguided in thinking that because some dont know much about Bonzers etc. that they cannot be serious or proffessional.
If a shaper started shaping after about 1986 any place with a core group of shortboarders they would never have experienced anything like these designs.
I once heard someone about 15 years ago say " no one under forty even knows how to gloss coat anymore".
When someone has the nuts to ask about something they would like to understand, would it not be better to answer their questions without the mightier than thou attitude?
Nice boards by the way :)
…Entity, may be we have here a virtual misunderstanding.
ask something to know more, is the way
for ex. just few minutes ago I ask something to MD
but the difference was what Im asking; Im not asking for trade secrets or too much info that belongs to some special shop or like that
or ask ALL and not have the experience to figurate out the rest or dont have a clue about general design concepts etc
I see these in this machined shapers world from around 10 years ago
so if some one claims that is a pro, have clientele, customers, team, etc
I expect a bit more.
by the way, the 5 fin bonzer is a mid - late 80s design and also had a tweak in early 90s
so is not an early 70s like the 3 finned ones
Not sure what this means.
[quote="$1"]
...Entity, may be we have here a virtual misunderstanding.
ask something to know more, is the way
for ex. just few minutes ago I ask something to MD
but the difference was what Im asking; Im not asking for trade secrets or too much info that belongs to some special shop or like that
or ask ALL and not have the experience to figurate out the rest or dont have a clue about general design concepts etc
[/quote]
Everything discussed here is a trade secret, seems to me anyway. Its not general knowledge. People on the street don't discuss fin cant or s-cloth or resin accelerators. That's what I thought this site is for. "Questions & answers, thoughts & theories on all aspects of surfcraft including practical & theoretical design, tools & materials, construction tips & techniques, and surfcraft history."
This line is written about me: "or ask ALL and not have the experience to figurate out the rest or dont have a clue about general design concepts etc" (except I think figurate is an ice skating term, not a surfing term, LOL!)
BTW, this is a nice image. Love to see more shots of this board!
I’ve got some ideas
I don’t actually have any Bonzer knowledge I’m just having fun speculating based on riding a canard fin experiment I once messed with and normal boards. I’m also thinking that this has to be a HP board potentially suitable for the Japan smaller wave market.
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on tri fins the shorter the board the further back the fins are - maybe same applies to a HPSBZ?
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on tri fins the shorter the board the closer the gap between front and rear - try the same on a HPSBZ
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I once made myself a convertible twinzer/twinny type board - it had overlap between front and rear - it had more drive in twinzer mode but free-falling down the line it felt like the brakes were applied! therefore try no overlap.
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WWMark once produced a wonderful twinzer type experiment with 4-way fully adjustible fins - he found that the more he canted the front fins relative to the rear the better it was - therefore try the fronts more canted than the rear.
when it comes to bonzers I don’t know what I am talking about, and its a bit laughable that I think I might know better than the Campbell bros, on the other hand nothing ventured nothing gained. Just brainstorming ideas Yorky
pics below illustrate my points, but as I said I don’t know what I am talking about
[img_assist|nid=1048844|title=Speculative HP compressed bonzer cluster|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=640|height=419]
[img_assist|nid=1048845|title=Speculative HP dual cant bonzer|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=640|height=419]
Reverb, those are great pics, you should post more pics, I’m sure a lot of us would like to see them. I do read your posts and often it does sound as if you are trying to put others down, if its not your intention then try posting in a more tolerant style.
the yellow board looks like it has a lot of tail kick, is this a general rule for bonzers?
I guess you've already got it shaped but FWIW here's my 2 cents.
Since the deep concaves are concentrated in a relatively short area, you've got to have a good bend at the rail. You are very familiar with this from shaping normal shortboards, the bonzer just emphasizes it. A lot of volume is taken out of the tail from the bottom side, so plan tail foil accordingly. The concave runout may dictate planshape a little, which is just fine and sorta like the way clinker bottom (deep channels) play into outline.
The boards are barrel monsters. When the 5-fin versions were brand new, late 80s, I got to see Davey Miller at Backdoor just going nuts! Anybody else who got to see what he did in that period will back me up. Insanity...
btw, I think reverb means well and he didn't know that yorky is an experienced and talented shaper. reverb's also posting in a second language, which can create problems. reverb's work shows that he knows what he's talking about and he learned it all the old, pre-internet way. When I see the range of unusual designs he does, the quality of his color and finish work, and the trippy fins, it makes me think he's sort of a South American version of Jim Phillips.
Mr. J, I like your idea.
I recently made a semi gun in a 2+1 set up. I made it so it could be ridden as a single with 8" fin, 2+1 with 7" fin and two small sidebites, or as a thruster. I tried all the variations and finally settled on the thruster center fin and the two small sidebites, a never intended combination. No slippage and a lot looser.
This past swell I used a 7-1 bonzer and it had that buttery smooth feel, but a bit stiff when the waves slowed down. That has been my experience and something a lot of people note- they are best in a pocket. And the word “tracky” has been used to describe them by detractors. The wave doesn’t have to be big, but the design likes the steeps.
Now, if I put my two semi gun experiences together , maybe a bonzer the way you described it, with a smaller center fin and the cluster a little further back and tighter (on my 7-1 the center was up 6" and I even moved it up further up to try and loosen it- didn’t work), might loosen things up a bit and still retain that smooth carvey feel. Got me thinking…sort of combining the quad and bonzer concepts…with a small 4 or 5 inch center fin…
Ok now I don’t know what I’ll make next- twin, quad, bonzer, modified bonzer…wish I could quit my day job…
Thinking maybe I should give an update on the progress of my Bonzer…Well I haven’t even started, other then a dozen or so sketches. Due to reasons out of my control I wont have time till Tuesday…sucks being a Hand shaper sometimes, well most of the time actually. Always fighting the clock.
I’m still waiting for a reply from master fin maker Phil Way (One man show) from Ballina RE: the side fins, It want be a problem for him to make them, I know this, I’m hoping he has some in stock. But If I run into any problems getting them, does any one know where else I can get them in Oz?
Mike, I too get the same impression as Pauluk - there is too much intolerance on swaylocks and it shouldn’t matter whether someone has done 1 or a 1000 when they post a question - this is a general comment not directed at any particular person.
Reverb I can guess why you referred to me as “someone like Mr J”, its not that I don’t value labour - I do value labour. Its just that my mixed background means that I don’t have the same sense of national identity as most of you and I think we should show more tolerance to different attitudes.
Yorky you once described the Japanese as intense, I wonder if thats where I get my personality from - my mother is Japanese haha. Anyway I hope you succeed in offering your bonzer there. We will wait til next week for your updates.
Jeff, thats great feedback on how your different fin experiences worked. Fins are strange things - I haven’t been able to come up with any rule on fin size - sometimes a board works well with small fins and sometimes a board works well with big fins.
I hope that one day you do get to produce the compressed bonzer fin cluster and report back - swaylocks is vicarious enjoyment for me nowadays - I don’t make boards as a hobbyist anymore. Here is WWMark’s dual cant quad which I mentioned earlier. He said it worked better with the extra cant for the front fins
I got a call from Phil this morning and my fins will be ready in a bit over a week.
He’s got the same Campbel Bros temp (I hope that doesn’t offend anyone).
I ordered two sets one for me with 1/8" cut off the bottom.
…The surfs pumping up here.
Hey Yorky
I know exactly what you mean about time restraints…still I’m making my own side runners carbon / bamboo combo.
Maybe I should have read the " Don’t Make Your Own Fins " thread again.
Are you doing glass on ? If not what fin system are you going with ?
Cheers
Mooneemick