My next project will be a traditional fish, a lot like some from the surf enginez site. My question, for just down the line acceleration should I go with a keel type fin or a modernizied twin fin style set up? And do you think the fin/keels should be parallel to the stringer or turned in a little. I have a 5’6" G&S fish from a friend who is letting me borrow it for inspiration, and it has keel fins almost right at the rail, way back (like maybe 4" from the ends of the swallows). The keels have no foil to them and look like they are either parallel with the stringer or pointed even a little out toward the rails. It is seldom ridden any more but he says on small days it goes like a bat out of hell. But in my limited experience it looks totally bizarre. I want a flat skatey fast down the line board with some float to it. The board I want to make will be 6’ x 21 to 22" wide (have not finalized the nose and tail dimensions yet, probably 16.5" and 15"). I will probably use a 6’2"c or a 7’3" (eaton egg type blank) and cut it out of the middle to get the thickness and rocker I am looking for. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
My next project will be a traditional fish, a lot like some from the surf > enginez site.>>>>>>If you plan on building a classic style fish, go with the keel style fins: 5"tall by 6" base( I prefer 4-5/8"tall by 6-3/4" base).>>>>>>>Parallel fins are okay in really small surf,but in bigger stuff tend to track ,and have more of a tendency to spin-out.A little toe and cant is a good thing and is not outside of a traditional fish design. I set mine at 7"-9"up from the tips.>>>>>>>>TIPS:Make sure you make the tails narrowed(pinny)and the crouch deep(6"-7")so the trailing edge of the fins almost meet the split.These are the dimentions I would go with: 6’- 6’2" x 21" x 17-1/2"n x 16-1/2"t,tail tips = 10" apart ,wide pt. = 3-1/2" up, 2-3/4" thru 3-1/4" thick.Nice boxy rails with a 1/8" - 1/4" tucked hard/sharp edge all the way around.Keep the deck(leinear) and rocker flat with just alittle nose flip in the nose tip(3-1/2"nose kick,and 1-2" tail rocker).The foil should be full all the way to the nose with a beak and foiled slightly to the tails.The bottom shouldbe flat no vee or concaves needed.GOOD LUCK!!!..Herb.
hey herb, what do you think twin vees or twin concaves running into the fins would do on a board like this? or just one vee/concave for that matter? question 2: what does keep the deck linear mean? thanks, steve
hey herb, what do you think twin vees or twin concaves running into the > fins would do on a board like this? or just one vee/concave for that > matter? question 2: what does keep the deck linear mean? thanks, steve>>>>>>ANSWER 1: vee would give it more tilt,so it would be more sensitive to turning,but it would take away from the vac. between the fins,as well as reduce speed and skate-ablity.Concaves will make it looser,and faster in most aplications,but it will also make it spinny it meaty stuff.>>>>>>ANSWER 2: LINEAR DECK(FLAT) no contour in the deck from nose to tail(not rail to rail).no flip in the nose,no kick in the tail,etc…FLAT!!! hope this helps,Herb.
You forgot to include the part about the Magic! Go to www.surfenginez.com, take your pick. Print one. Take the print to Kinkos. Blow it up a few times on the public blue print machine, until you have actual size.Cut it out pin it to your blank. Then foil it as shown. Study the fin placement, and glass on accordingly. It would take me thirty years to explain what’s going on with the rest of the ingrediences. It has something to do with compression. All that time and effort condensed into an entity that you can own for a fraction of what you will go through, and spend, to maybe… well you understand. YES, as he says, GOOD LUCK! your going to need some if.
In the 70s I had the opportunity of riding lots of different fish designs including,LIS,FRYE,MARTIN,BROM,McHALE,to name a few.My favorite fish was a Dyno 5’-10" x 20-1/4".I bought it off the racks new for $135.00 (thanks to a tip from a friend, “Tom Niggeman”)out of the Dyno shop in June of 75’. This was, I know for a fact one of your shapes Mr.Magic.I rode that board till it fell apart here and in Hawaii…To this day that was the best riding classic twin type fish I have ever ridden,bar none!Herb.
In the 70s I had the opportunity of riding lots of different fish designs > including,LIS,FRYE,MARTIN,BROM,McHALE,to name a few.My favorite fish was a > Dyno 5’-10" x 20-1/4".I bought it off the racks new for $135.00 > (thanks to a tip from a friend, “Tom Niggeman”)out of the Dyno > shop in June of 75’. This was, I know for a fact one of your shapes > Mr.Magic.I rode that board till it fell apart here and in > Hawaii…To this day that was the best riding classic twin > type fish I have ever ridden,bar none!Herb. Thanks Herb, I’ve built on that kind of feedback ever since. You take care! Hope that you can stomach the Ugly. Some things I read here, and hear about up here lately, really get to me. Pardon me if I don’t respond that much any more. My work load is starting to take a hit. Swaylock, you got a great thing going here! It’s like a whirlpool, it sucks you in, and before you realize, your spending hours trying to respond. I meant what I said about subscribing to these ongoing contributions in this discussion catagory. Let me know when it’s available. Though I know that it will drive me nuts.
I appreciate all the feedback, and Magic Man if I lived closer to you (I’m in FL) I would take you up on the purchase of the real deal. My budget just isn’t right to pay shop prices plus shipping. Plus hacking out a shape is just good therapy for me. Herb I have not received the fins yet, but I am sure they are just delayed with all the crap going on at the post office. I thank you, and thanks for the fish info.
I appreciate all the feedback, and Magic Man if I lived closer to you (I’m > in FL) I would take you up on the purchase of the real deal. My budget > just isn’t right to pay shop prices plus shipping. Plus hacking out a > shape is just good therapy for me.>>> Herb I have not received the fins yet, but I am sure they are just delayed > with all the crap going on at the post office. I thank you, and thanks for > the fish info. In this business, we can use all the good therapy that we can get. Take care!
yep, that helps a lot, thanks!
the fish designs have always intrigued me. they’re so bizarre looking. but how do they ride? would you compare them more to a single fin shortboard or a modern thruster? do they trim? what do you guys think some good dimensions for a 5’8 fish would be?? -THANKS!- -steve
the fish designs have always intrigued me. they’re so bizarre looking. but > how do they ride? would you compare them more to a single fin shortboard > or a modern thruster? do they trim? what do you guys think some good > dimensions for a 5’8 fish would be??>>> -THANKS!->>> -steve >You can’t really compare them to either, they have their own feel. Very loose. They pick up speed when you connect bottom and S turns. You have to work them to get them going. If you try and just stand there and let the board do the work you the wave will just pass you by or you won’t make a section, whatever. Very fun when you get use to them. Just a good change of pace. As far as dimensions go the ones posted by herb in the previous post are right in the park with what I have seen around. It really depends on what kind of variables you want to utilize (float, etc.).
the fish designs have always intrigued me. they’re so bizarre looking. but > how do they ride? would you compare them more to a single fin shortboard > or a modern thruster? do they trim? what do you guys think some good > dimensions for a 5’8 fish would be??>>> -THANKS!->>> -steve To compare how a Fish surfs against a performance thruster, think about how it feels to snowboard on hard packed vs. powder. Fish are ridden much more off your front foot. Quick and squirrelly.
Is anyone making glass on or otherwise the older 5x9 or 5x7 keel type template (preferably glass not plastic)? TS>>> To compare how a Fish surfs against a performance thruster, think about > how it feels to snowboard on hard packed vs. powder. Fish are ridden much > more off your front foot. Quick and squirrelly.
Is anyone making glass on or otherwise the older 5x9 or 5x7 keel type > template (preferably glass not plastic)?>>> TS Try Clyde Beatty in Ventura. I know True Aimes has made some I believe 5"X7" fins to fit Red X.
a while ago my friend gave me his 5’5 kneeboard to “make some adjustments”. i took out the middle fin (it was a thruster) and cut a swallow tail into it. i tried it for the first time today, the thing was crazy, and it really cant be compared to single fins or thrusters. the only problem was that it tended to side slip a little bit on bigger waves. im guessing that the fins werent big enough and that the swallow tail wasnt deep enough. ideas anyone? thanks, -steve
a while ago my friend gave me his 5’5 kneeboard to “make some > adjustments”. i took out the middle fin (it was a thruster) and cut a > swallow tail into it. i tried it for the first time today, the thing was > crazy, and it really cant be compared to single fins or thrusters. the > only problem was that it tended to side slip a little bit on bigger waves. > im guessing that the fins werent big enough and that the swallow tail > wasnt deep enough. ideas anyone? thanks, -steve Steve, Make yourself a couple of slightly over-sized, wider-based fins, i.e. 7" x 9" x 1/2"… and go surfing, grinding and re-testing… the road to discovery is paved with surprises, loads of fun and the knowledge/skill gained are worth far more than the price of the effort.
a while ago my friend gave me his 5’5 kneeboard to “make some > adjustments”. i took out the middle fin (it was a thruster) and cut a > swallow tail into it. i tried it for the first time today, the thing was > crazy, and it really cant be compared to single fins or thrusters. the > only problem was that it tended to side slip a little bit on bigger waves. > im guessing that the fins werent big enough and that the swallow tail > wasnt deep enough. ideas anyone? thanks, -steve>>>>>>>Were you kneeboarding it or stand-up? Without seeing the board I really can’t say,but it sounds like the fins are either too far up,too small or a combo of each.THE SWALLOW does have a major role in bite,and how you build them also will change the positvity of the board. Side slipping usually dictates fins and/or edges. I’ll see if I can pass off another day at the beach tommorrow,it will be hard to match today though.Herb.
a while ago my friend gave me his 5’5 kneeboard to “make some > adjustments”. i took out the middle fin (it was a thruster) and cut a > swallow tail into it. i tried it for the first time today, the thing was > crazy, and it really cant be compared to single fins or thrusters. the > only problem was that it tended to side slip a little bit on bigger waves. > im guessing that the fins werent big enough and that the swallow tail > wasnt deep enough. ideas anyone? thanks, -steve www.surfenginez.com Thirty years of service to the split in the tail, fin gone away in the center, two fins on the side, wanta wonder why it works so good when it’s right, community, at your service.
i was standing up on the board. and the fins are just the normal thruster fins, which seem a bit small, the swallow tail isnt very deep, maybe 3-4 inches, and the board has tucked hard edges all around, i think its about 24 inches thick… its disc-shaped. it also has really really tiny wings right above the fins.>>> Without seeing the board I really can’t say,but it sounds like the fins > are either too far up,too small or a combo of each.THE SWALLOW does have a > major role in bite,and how you build them also will change the positvity > of the board.>>> Side slipping usually dictates fins and/or edges.>>> I’ll see if I can pass off another day at the beach tommorrow,it will be > hard to match today though.Herb.