Traditional Longboard

General Discussion
1

Hi there, I am about to embark on my first board and am planning on it being a traditional longboard. I have studied this forum on all info I can find concerning the design and have come up with the attached outline and rocker profile. Before I start I was hoping that some of you experts could cast your eye over this design and let me know if you think it’s ok or whether there are any obvious short-comings. I am planning 50/50 rails the whole way and some roll/vee out of the tail. I also have shown a dotted oval showing where I plan on putting concave.

I have the following questions that I havn’t been able to find answers to:-

  • Do I need an uprail in the tail / Is it advisable?
  • I have heard that the rails at the nose should be 'bladey' what does this mean and is it true?
  • how deep should the concave be?
Any help would be greatly appreciated

Jonny

2

Template:-

700×275 9.06 KB

3

Forgot to add thickness which 3 1/4"

4

If you would, please post the time period to which you are referring.  For a 60s style 'Malibu' longboard (as pictured?) I think you're pretty close.  Stick a skeg/D-style fin way back on the tail and you got it.

The later 60s models were getting more and more refined and in my opinion were grossly under rated as soon as the shortboard thing took over. 

Not only were the shapes getting better but the fins were getting better... streamlined and installed further up from the tail.  The older models with tons of tail rocker, fat 50/50 rails, and widepoints back needed those big fins way back to maintain control.

Going a bit further back and some of the wooden boards were actually pretty streamlined... just heavy as hell.  At the Surfing Heritage Museum there are some fine examples of older boards with very thin bladed rails.

'Traditional' is a tough one to nail down.

5

Hit the pause button.

Look at some blank catalogs. Test drive some surfboards......You might be suprised to see how the hip new gen longboarders have fooled you....... the surfers are really skinny...the boards look old school but have modern rocker....I'm no pro but my longer surfboards often look flat on the deck....I'm not saying you are wrong....If you want to test drive a board with rocker like you posted I have one....It sucks...paddles fast...good for a mushy wave...and a nose dive.

Ask people if you can ride their boards before you move forward with this project.........Ray............

 

6

I’ll go with Ray on this one - those old school flat rockers just don’t seem as functional as a more continuous arc, like you see on the modern longboards.

7

          “Mudybech – that board looks great and along the lines of what I am looking for, could you please explain to me the rails, what is the difference between pinched, thick and bladey 50/50 rails?”

The illustration below gives you some idea. The pink rail is a truer to a 50/50 or egg shaped rail. Pinched and bladey may be a slight bit vague but meant to represent two similar rails in some degree. These terms may not be politically correct the surf world along with “50/50 rails”, but you get the idea. The difference in the terms with my board is that one has a bit more volume(in the nose) then in the tail. “Pinched” would represent the nose entry rail line that looks like the lime green rail below. “Bladey” would be in-between the light blue and dark blue leaning more towards the dark rail illustration which helps penetrate the water while turning. (note: I have done “up” rails at the nose, to a 50/50 egg shape through the center, to “up” rails in the tail with good success on a few noserider.) Keep it simple and closer to what makes sense to you as you start shaping the rails.

“ I love the look of those big ‘D’ fins would you recommend it or did you prefer the function of the other fin?”

 

After watching your video’s I would go with a pivot style fin over the D-fin because the surfers\boards you are trying to imitate look to be “snappy” in their cut backs. D-fins have a longer drawn out turn because of the wide base and extra volume.

Also, I would glass on a leash loop. In the second video the guy can surf well but still almost clobbers a guy paddling out after he wipes out and loses control on his board…

 

“You mentioned that this was a pig shape, how narrow is the nose? I was wondering if I should pull mine in a bit? “

I don’t recall the exact width but I think it’s in the17.5”- 18” range. The hips back, narrow nose help in loosing up the board when turning. You could pull in the nose some, but I would not over exaggerate it.

 

It’s been said over and over throughout the years to people starting their first shape…

Take your time and make it your best shape possible!

Research every step in advance and complete it as perfect as you possibly can. Walk away when you feel frustrated or impulsive to make a quick change to your original plan. Come back the next day with fresh eyes and a clear head. Get over any itch for hurry to get it finished! There is no hurry and you will waste time and money by rushing through the motions.

Most of all have fun with the process and expect to be hooked for life in surf craft construction.

709×110 14.8 KB

8

Thank you for your input, I value your comments and experience.
My aim was to create a longboard suited to traditional longboarding as opposed to the modern ‘shortboarding approach many performance logs seem set up for. I have no interest in hitting lips on this I want it for small summer swells, cruising and trying some noserides. My local beach is fat and weak but it does peel.
My inspiration for this board was the following videos:
Tyler Surfboards – Man, Bear Pig http://vimeo.com/60567186
Almond Surfboards – Nathan Adams – Sano Special: http://vimeo.com/28562981
As i cant get my hands on either of these boards I have had to guess roughly what they may be like…i may be way off…any thoughts??

9

Nice wide tail is fun too , just throwing it out there

728×435 65.9 KB

10

I have built a few flattish pig shapes and love them. I tried to go old school/ traditional on this Mexican blanket shape. 10’0” x 23.75” I have surfed it in larger surf but it works best in crumbling not so steep knee to chest waves. It catches everything before it’s even close to breaking. If you go with the nose rider, cheat the apex of the rocker back with the hips behind center. Then keep the area from the apex forward flatish with late nose kick(3-3.5 rocker/concave optional) I went with late tail kick at about 3.75” . I don’t have a profile shot, but it is a lot like your diagram. Bottom contours are a slight rolled bottom nose to tail. This board is mega heavy which I love with all my boards… 2x 6oz bottom x 3x 6oz top…GLIDE… Rails…pinched 50/50 at the nose to thick 50/50 throughout the center, to bladey 50/50 through the tail. I started with a pivot style fin (which I loved) but decided to put on a 1” D-Fin to keep it old school. I have an older gentleman in his 60’s that I surf with in the Outer Banks who swears he rode the same board in the 60’s. He talked me into switching out to the D-Fin. I will say that the pivot fin was much more snappy and performance driven as you can imagine but I kept the D-fin as this is my summertime cruiser.

I was born in 67 so have no actual knowledge of traditional boards and I am not an expert builder. Just some thoughts from my experience.

400×600 60.6 KB

11

I could only upload 1 pic at a time...

728×485 77 KB

12

D-Fin

400×600 31.1 KB

13

"If you go with the nose rider, cheat the apex of the rocker back with the hips behind center. Then keep the area from the apex forward flatish with late nose kick(3-3.5 rocker/concave optional) I went with late tail kick at about 3.75” . I don’t have a profile shot, but it is a lot like your diagram."

 

The board by mudybech looks very nice and is inline with what you describe.  Sounds like he agrees you're on the right track.  I like his D fin treatment but the fin on his other board looks good too.

Note that his tail rocker is lowered a bit from your diagram.  For some reason the nose thickness in your diagram looks a little bulbous... maybe a blended spoon/stepdeck through the front third would help that?  

The biggest factor in nose riding isn't a concave... it's wave positioning, timing and quick feet.  I'd consider skipping the concave - just learn to nose ride it when the opportunity presents itself.  Concaves present a whole range of variables that may or not be helpful.

14

Jonny, pay attention.     Mr. Mellor, has voiced an observation to you, that is worthy of your rapt attention.

15

Concaves suck arse in windy conditions too IMHO

16

Thanks for all your comments:

Stingray / Huck– most of my friend ride shortboards so havn’t got a vast range of longboards available to try so I have been looking at videos at guys surfing the way I like and have been trying to find out about the boards they are riding ( I appreciate that good surfers make it look easy and can surf anything) Any suggestions for adjustments to my rocker profile would be appreciated.

Mudybech – that board looks great and along the lines of what I am looking for, could you please explain to me the rails, what is the difference between pinched, thick and bladey 50/50 rails? I love the look of those big ‘D’ fins would you recommend it or did you prefer the function of the other fin? You mentioned that this was a pig shape, how narrow is the nose? I was wondering if I should pull mine in a bit?

Johnmellor – you have convinced me to drop the concave, I like your idea about the step deck but was wondering if a simpler solution would be to take the thickness out of the bottom thus adding a bit to the nose rocker as well (to say 3.5”). I am worried that a step deck might be too complicated for my first board.

Thrailkill – I am stoked that you have entered this conversation, any advice you have would be greatly appreciated. That pic of you at sunset in the 60’s is insane!

Thanks again for all your time

Jonny

 

17

Oh by the way, I presume that the rocker dimension is taken from the underside of the board and not the centre of the rail right? so that the foil isnt taken into account?

18

Hi -

Regarding rocker...  boosting it to 3.5" (or 4") is still going to result in a fairly flat nose rocker.  If you flip the tip upwards, you'll find yourself measuring at the apex of the nose tip.  If it's a beak-nosed down railer, you'll find yourself measuring at the bottom.

In all honesty, it's not that easy to precisely hit your marks - especially on a 1st time shape.  Give it your best shot and then grit your teeth when after glassing the bottom, you find that maybe you've lost a bit of rocker from the glass tightening up during cure. 

No biggy.  It'll be a new board and you'll have to figure it out in the water.

19

  Give it your best shot and then grit your teeth when after glassing
the bottom, you find that maybe you’ve lost a bit of rocker from the
glass tightening up during cure. – John , dose that mean that if you glassed the deck first it would increase the rocker when the glass cures.?  I never noticed any change on any longboards that I did with 10 oz volan back in the day but then I wasn’t lookin or never thought about that back then. Was it the Weber Performer that made the big change in rocker profile back in 1966 ?  Can any one put up a rocker profile picture of a Weber Performer. My shapeing edjucation was interupted by the Vietnam war so I lost 4 years and the board were short when I came back !

20

"Stingray / Huck– most of my friend ride shortboards so havn’t got a vast range of longboards available to try so I have been looking at videos at guys surfing the way I like and have been trying to find out about the boards they are riding ( I appreciate that good surfers make it look easy and can surf anything) Any suggestions for adjustments to my rocker profile would be appreciated."

Time to meet some new people and make some new friends. Most old guy longboarders will let you check out their boards.

It took a long time for me to get to this point...you are going to have to build a few. I have a 9'3" with too much over all rocker. ResinHead said it's a gun blank. Pushes water when paddling. My favorite longboard.

.....and the 10 footer. Paddles fast. Same rocker that you posted. great for perfect, small point break.

It's the rider not the board....Waste your time riding other peoples boards first. I'm not Mr Longboarder. The basic 2+1 works for most people. I like a little more rocker, rolled bottom, don't care about nose concave and no way a D fin. I can two step but not hang ten....but I can turn my log....but.....I'm also in the battle to stay on shorter boards even though I'm over 50.............every dog has his day...pigs too!