Unfriendly-Balsa and European wood

General Discussion
1

Building wooden boards is great and environmental-friendly.

I’d like to try it someday.

But what wood should I use?

Balsa or cedar shipped from the other side of the world to europe is not what I call environmental-friendly and is expensive.

And the chopping of Balsa causes a lot of env. problems in south-amerika.

So I started to look for an alternative.

I found 2 great sorts of wood wich grow in my own country, Belgium!

Linden and Willow.

–see below–

Notice the extreme high Eco indicator of Balsa wood.

For me it looks like Cedar is the best choice for American builders.

But for my European buddies: I think we should go LINDEN!

What do you guys think of it and has anybody ever used Linden?

Non-Europeans can also say what they thing about the use of eco-unfriendly Balsa.

The Data:

*Linden:

Young’s modulus 5800 - 17200 MPa

Tensile strength 23 - 145 MPa

Compressive strength 26 - 78 MPa

Bending strength 46 - 147 MPa

Density : 0 - 490 kg/m3

Eco indicator 99: 0.697 Pt

*Willow:

Young’s modulus 4400 - 10100 MPa

Tensile strength 32.5 - 70 MPa

Compressive strength 18 - 28 MPa

Bending strength 30 - 61.5 MPa

Density: 0 - 330 kg/m3

Eco indicator 99 : 1.47 Pt

to compare, balsa and cedar:

*Balsa:

Young’s modulus 1130 - 6000 MPa

Shear modulus 100 - 500 MPa

Tensile strength 0 - 75 MPa

Compressive strength 3.5 - 27 MPa

Bending strength 5.3 - 39 MPa

Yield strength 15 - 25 MPa

Density: 0 - 130 kg/m3

Eco indicator 99: 54Pt

Environmental remarks: Balsa wood comes from tropical rain forest in Central and South America (e.g. Brasil). This causes many serious environmental problems. The transport to the Netherlands is estimated to require 9000 km by ship and additional 250km by trailer. Processing in Brasil is assumed.

*Western red Cedar:

Young’s modulus 7400 - 7900 MPa

Tensile strength 0 - 50 MPa

Compressive strength 29 - 35 MPa

Bending strength 48 - 54 MPa

Density: 0 - 350 kg/m3

Eco indicator 99: 0.771 Pt

Thanks to: http://www.matbase.com/index.php

2

Hans, I like the idea, but Balsa is a weed. There is no such thing as entire forests of balsa trees. They grow singly or in very small, widely scattered groups in the jungle. For hundreds of years, balsa was actually considered a weed tree. They reproduce by growing hundreds of long seed pods, which eventually open up and, with the help of the wind, scatter thousands of new seeds over a large area of the jungle. Each seed is airborne on its own small wisp of down, similar to the way dandelion seeds spread. The seeds eventually fall to the ground and are covered by the litter of the jungle. There they lay and accumulate until one day there is an opening in the jungle canopy large enough for the sun’s rays to strike the jungle floor and start the seeds growing. Wherever there is an opening, made either by a farmer or by another tree dying, balsa will spring up as thick as grass. A farmer is often hard put to keep his food plot clear of balsa. As the new balsa trees grow, the strongest will become predominate and the weaker trees will die. By the time they are mature, there may be only one or two basa trees to an acre of jungle.Balsa trees grow very rapidly (like all pesky weeds). Six months after germination, the tree is about 1-1/2 inches in diameter and 10 - 12 feet tall. In 6 to 10 years the tree is ready for cutting, having reached a height of 60 to 90 feet tall and a diameter of 12 to 45 inches. If left to continue growing, the new wood being grown on the outside layers becomes very hard and the tree begins to rot in the center. Unharvested, a balsa tree may grow to a diameter of 6 feet or more, but very little usable lumber can be obtained from a tree of this size.

Balsa is a very good sustainable / manageable material. It’s too bad you can’t get it cheaper in EU.

3

Also to the Balsa point:

Nature evidently designed the balsa tree to be a “nurse tree” which would protect the slower-growing species of trees from the scorching jungle sun during their critical early years. For instance, in an area of the jungle that has been ravaged by a tropical storm or other natural disaster, the balsa trees will quickly sprout and begin to shoot up to impressive heights in a very short time. Their fast growth, and the extra large leaves they have in their early years, provide shade to the young seedlings of the slower-growing forest giants. By the time the seedlings are established enough to take care of themselves, the balsa tree is beginning to die. Undoubtably, the balsa tree’s rapid growth, fast spreading crown of first very large and gradually smaller leaves, and it’s relatively short life span were intended to make it the “perfect nurse” in the jungle ecosystem.

All Hail the Balsa tree, use the Balsa!

4

Net / Net, the reason why Balsa is so expensive is because you can’t clear cut a forest of it. You have to go and do it the old fashion Paul Bunion way. Hike in cut a tree down, and drag it off to the mill, one or two trees at a time. That’s not to say that they don’t harvest them when they do clear cut a old growth forest, but Balsa is not the reason for clear cutting tropical rain forests…Farming and cattle ranching is.

Am I being controversial here?

5

Okej, HAIL BALSA :smiley:

But it’s still expensive here and the transport to europe is polluting.

I’m still looking for alternatives ;).

6

Hans, in germany there is a good supplier with reasonably priced balsa and it is imported with a permit so we must assume it is not illegally harvested.

http://www.thomabalsa.de

7
Quote:

Okej, HAIL BALSA :smiley:

But it’s still expensive here and the transport to europe is polluting.

I’m still looking for alternatives ;).

I know, it’s expensive in California too.

8

prtty cheap here and aus

9

I mean a balsa blank is $350-$500 us.

10

Go to the beach with a chainsaw and cut some driftwood…Log size driftwood…Seriously…

11

f me dead

thats crazy talk

now know why they so much for finished board

that is unfriendly balsa

12

Hans,

Linden is known as Basswood, here in the US. There are several varieties of Linden. Good strength to weight ratios. Am I correct in assuming that you are intending to chamber the board? A solid Linden/Basswood board would be quite heavy, by todays standards. Even by yesterdays standards, it would be heavy!

13

Resinhead

There are commercial plantations of balsa being grown in New Guinea.

As you say very fast growing tree that has a naturally limited lifespan.

Self regulated weed tree in it’s natural environment.

Cheers

Mooneemick

14

Thrailkill,

My intention is to find an alternative to balsa. At the moment I have no time for shaping.

But I think of using it in HWS and compsand constructions. Or as parabolic rail material.

And I believe it is quite cheap.

Do you know anything about Willow?

greets,

Hans

15

If we in the first world refuse to buy products from the third world because of the carbon foot print caused by transportation, the scale of the human disaster will be enormous. We are the rich ones and we should support poorer economies, God knows we have done enough in the past to ensure that they became third world countries.

16

Hans,

I have no knowledge, or experience, with Willow. For HWS, or Compsand construction, Linden would be fine. You might also look at aircraft quality Baltic Birch plywood. It can be obtained in many dimensions. Super strong, too.

17

Thanks a lot!

18

Hey Hans I milled some willow thinking to use it on a board but did not use it. It just felt a little to heavy for me. Weight can add up easy on a hws. I know wood from different places can be lighter or heaver so I say just try some and see for yourself. 3mil plywood makes good skins, Popular in 3mil is sorta light. Go to a local mill and ask them what they can cut that is supper light. Mabe you have something in your woods that is way cool.

                                                                          Happy hunting  Mike
19

Check out Poplar for European wood and if you can face a tropical one Obeche is pretty damn good, Jelutong not bad either.

Isn’t Linden the German name for Lime trees?

20

I agree with POPLAR as an alternate choice. Strong, and light.