Hello everyone- I am in the process of gathering the last few items needed to shape and glass my first board from an Ice9 7’4 hybrid blank I found cheap on craigslist. Thinking about trying a 5’8 x 22 5/8 x ~2 2/3 mini simmons or fish (templates from Greenlight) since I’m 5’7 and 195. Stout would be a good word to describe me. I like higher volume boards and surf mostly slower Huntington Cliffs/Goldenwest with my fish and funboard shapes and River Jetties/56th when I want faster rides with my more agressive board. This site has been an incredible wealth of knowledge and an ongoing inspiration in the last year or so that I’ve lurked it’s forum soaking up information. Seriously- once you wade though some of the inevitable internet bickering, the advice and hard earned ideas that most of you -pro and backyarder alike- freely give out are invaluable. Props and respect to the Elder Sways aside, this thought just occurred to me while reading up on another “1st time build” thread where the topic of tints was discussed:
In the thread, one poster cautioned that the OP’s salvaged/reshaped LB blank would likely show any glaring cuts or gouges in the foam that occurred when the old glass was stripped off and the razor went a little too deep if tint or foam paint was applied without the blank being fine sanded. Obviously, the tint or paint would wick into the micro cuts and condense for a deeper shade in that one spot, showing “track marks” everywhere, but this got me thinking: could this possibly create an artistically desired effect? Could one make a fascimile like this cool old bloodletting device:
to make SHALLOW (1mm, if that) designs or patterns in the foam to concentrate the tint/paint? Or would the micro cuts, however small, affect the integrity of the blank or bond between lam and foam?
Hell, perhaps it would even have an overall stiffening effect, essentially giving the resin/lam glass more bite into the blank. Or conversely, maybe it would make that section prone to delamination if used on a high impact area like the deck… I’m just riffing on this idea here, but my gut feeling from reading this site for so long makes me think that any flaw in the foam, intended or not, would make for weak points in the overall structure… But I digress and leave this to you posters who have much more experience than I. I’ve personally never seen anything like that anywhere in my admittedly few years that I’ve been seriously pursuing surfing, but the creative possibilities it presents are at least intriguing, especially since I have shaping/glassing on my mind.
Anyone see something like this, or is it a dead end because it would introduce unacceptable flaws into the blank or resin/fiberglass? Thanks or taking the time to read.
I will definitely do a test piece once I get some tint; I can picture what the overall effect would on the board as a whole since my little 6’0 funky Cordell-shaped Chuck Dent single fin looks like it was used as a “training” shape since you can see alot of little flaws throughout the board. Probably why it was resin swirled with a questionable purple, yellow, red, black and white colorway- but the deck is a clearish light red color and I can see where some small flaws were oversaturated with the tint.
This technique used across sections of the whole board would have an interesting effect- Im thinking a 3d-ish, stratified tint effect that would give off a certain depth, almost an “etched” look. Or it could look like shit. I suppose the foam around the cuts would have to be pristine, the cuts themselves very precise and the glassing near perfect to pull it off. Check out the shot of Europa exactly halfway down the page, and you can get an idea of the effect I am imagining: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=227775 . The pattern on the board wouldn’t be so Jackson Pollack though, unless delamination turns out to be a non issue…
doing a test piece wouldn’t solve the main questions of durability or increased/decreased structural integrity though. Maybe this kind of thing would be reserved only for low impact areas?.. Just asked my Uncle who has been regularly surfing since the 60’s and he said he can’t recall any boards using this particular artistic method… Still intrigued in any case.
Anyone else care to chime in; thoughts, comments, critiques?
Thanks, a picture would be great. Since you’ve only done your logo, have you noticed any delam in the area? Do you think air bubbles would be an issue even with the depth of the cuts so small? Maybe use a bit more resin to make sure everything gets saturated?
Stoked to see what this looks like on a larger scale… Still would be hesitant with doing cross hatches like I am envisioning across the deck…
The extra resin adds weight. And as Girvin stated you will be lucky if you don't have abunch of air bubbles. I don't understand why first timers don't just do a clear for their first board? Instead every one has to impress everbody else here on Sways with their first time artistic abilities. I'd be more concerned with whether or not my "Bitchin' " shape can get down the line and turn.
Ha! Trust me McDing, whether or not the board works at all is my chief concern. I think I am being pretty practical with my lowish expectations about this first board shaping-wise, and am really looking at it as a learning experience. I do all my own ding repair: delams, replacing foam on big dings, resetting fins, routing out new fin boxes… so I see the slow, deliberate hand shaping of a blank as the next step in my relationship with the physical form that I ride weekly. As for the aesthetics- I understand your position on the clear coat, but not because I am trying to display some sort of beginner’s arrogance if I decide to make my board “arty”.
I was just curious if this process could work (which Girvin confirms), and what the pitfalls may/may not be. I am still intrigued by it.
Apart from the care needed to avoid bubbles, you bring up an added weight issue: do you really think the resin and added tint needed to soak the microcuts would create a noticeable difference in an otherwise inherently buoyant shape? I mean, even guessing aggressively there couldn’t be more than just tens of grams in added weight if someone did this over large areas of the blank, right? The cuts would be at most a mm in depth, and only as wide as the razor that made them. Heck, you probably piss out the weight you gain from the added resin in the morning paddleout from the beers drunk the night before…
Anyways, I may tint, I may not, but since that blank has been sitting in the garage for the past 2 weeks images of all kinds of shapes and colors have been swirling around my daydreams here at work. If there is a creative itch, why not scratch? At this point, it’s hard to ignore.
Thanks all, keep the comments coming. Especially if you have seen/done this over large parts of the board. Still curious about durability. Still want to see that pic if you can find it Girvin.
I once shaped a blank and decided to get creative with 40 grit scratches. I took a hard block with 40 grit and ran 4 scratches in a straight line from nose to tail all over the board. Even “screened” the rails with 40 grit. I glassed it with an orange tint. It actually looked pretty good. Kinda gets me thinking again.
Howzit Mr.Clean, Now my brain is churning and I think I would get one of those gardening tools with the 4 bent tines and use that to scratch a design on a blank and since it would make deeper cuts the tint would really show up in the ruts. I tell you I really miss making boards. Aloha,Kokua
Stoked this is jogging some memories and getting the juices flowing!
Kokua- would the deeper indents make for a less stable foam/resin bond? This dude at work even suggested using one of those decorative cake rollers- the ones with the patterns in them? I wouldn’t go that far, I would never want stars or animal-cracker shapes on any board I own, but it does make one pause and think, no?
Still waiting for one of you guys to produce a picture- Cleanlines seems to have the best representation of what I was picturing, although the image in my head is more uniform in appearance instead of 40 grit texture everywhere. How did it look in the end???
Howzit hamrock, I was thinking of just a little deeper than that tool you had so more tint would fill in the ruts so I don't think it would hurt the strength factor. There are some of us that have been around a long time and a new idea can get our brains in a new mode and I like your idea. You have to realize that Cleanlines is a master board builder with thousands of boards under his belt. Aloha,Kokua
Kokua- its kind of a funky feeling sharing stoke and getting updates on my smartphone from master builders/people like yourself while literally at the same moment I am slowly truing my 1st shape up after cutting the outline… I have some good size offcuts from the blank- think ill just go ahead and do a photographic journey in experimentation concerning these little tinted ruts when I get my hands on some tint…
John- that was my thougt too at first, but then my uncle started telling me about a glass house here in Orange County that tried a similiar technique with straight resin, no tint in search of a delam-proof board way back when. He finished the story by saying that most of the boards they did with their similiar technique all reported early delams… No other details than that, so who knows where they might have went wrong…
"....do a photographic journey in experimentation concerning these little tinted ruts when I get my hands on some tint..."
yes , PLEASE !
I KEENLY await the photo-journalism .
(A lot of times in the past people give lots of ideas , the questioner says "thanks" , and we never get to see the results .... it just seems like sometimes our brains get picked .....
mind you , that said ...i have asked my share of questions here over the years ...it's GREAT the EXPERTISE presented here ! make the most of it ...and give back , too . THAT is what makes sways great !! )
Ben, will do. I know exactly what you are talking about as well. In my research on sways, more than half of the threads I’ll read will contain an awesome back and forth between the posters on problems and solutions. Stuff that is perfect for a beginner like me to mull over. But then the thread will be abandoned with no indication or evidence that all the solutions or advice given from others ever panned out… Ill try to avoid that scenario. I’m brainstorming ways of how to make the little cutting tool though. Anyone have any suggestions?
Hamrock, the little wheel on this is from a tool used for replacing screens, it works very well indenting the foam without ripping due to the rolling action so there is no rips, I am currently in the works on doing a design on the foam then using a tint for it to show through.You have to be careful of air bubbles in the etching if you remove to much resin but if you leave to much your design will not be cleanly outlined.
That helps greatly, thanks Tom. Make sure to post a pic when its done! One question though- sounds like you’ve done this before: do you find the little wheel too limiting? From the picture it looks as if it only works along the rail? Kind of an etched pin line? Interesting in any case. Would love to see past boards you’ve done this way.
Howzit Kokua…yep building boards is an addiction to old Dogs like us. I just got back in to it as a glorified hobby and have 4 grand invested. Having a “factory” to mess around in is like a security blanket. I have a stash of materials and all the tools so when the bug hits me I can go for it. Trying to take it to another level as far as artwork goes. Not really planning on selling anything at this point. I will have too much time in em to realize a profit.
I dig the fact that these younger guys are trying to do “art” on their boards. The whole thing about building backyard boards is to have fun. If you want a perfect board buy one from Resinhed or McDing (He he) (:
My 40 grit scratch board was done in the 70’s when I was living in Hawaii. It looked good to me but it was not exactly a huge success in the surf market. Actually it was kind of a joke aimed at a very famous Shaper whom we were glassing boards for. We called him Mr. 40 grit and he got huge money for his shapes. I will refrain from using his name as he is still shaping and gets mega bucks for his boards.
The wheel is like anything else, you have to practice a little to understand what you can do with it, you can hold the wheel like a pencil minus the rail block. It can make curvy lines very easy and a straight edge next to it is excellent for long straight lines. There are many things you can use around the house for indenting the foam, just use your imagination and as all the gurus here said practice on scrap foam and glass with a tint to give you a better understanding of what you want to acheive. When I’m done I’ll post some pics.
Hamrock, the little wheel on this is from a tool used for replacing screens, it works very well indenting the foam without ripping due to the rolling action so there is no rips, I am currently in the works on doing a design on the foam then using a tint for it to show through.You have to be careful of air bubbles in the etching if you remove to much resin but if you leave to much your design will not be cleanly outlined.