I’ve read many posts from glassers who love UV resin for obvious reasons. It’s forgiving and allows control of the gel time. That’s definitely on the Pro side. However, I’ve talked to one surfer/engineer on the beach who thinks that it is not as strong as regular resin, and is more apt to delam. Anyone with experience who can shed some light on this subject? Any info will be greatly appreciated, as I am tempted to try it, but don’t want a board that I have to worry about. Thanks. Doug
never had a UV board come back delamed and weve done hundreds, we also do repairs and alot of our customers come back. Never had feedback from a shaper that the UV was bad, never had the spots that have been spoken of. if you gould set fin boxes and do tints with UV id wouldnt even own any mekp. I love the fact you can recycle it if you have a catch basin set up. You dont loose the extra that you accidently poured. I know some people always mix a bit of MEKP with the resin. I do not. Ive actually snapped fewer UV glassed boards than MEKP boardshotcoating is easier you use less esin and can make sure its ulta smooth before you kick it. We mix ours ourselves and we spin the drums for several hours to make sure they are well mixed. WIth this we have never had a blothing problem, never had a paint issue. We use a UV tube not sunlight, apparently that makes a difference according to some on this board. I cant really think of any CONS, I make up in saved resin what i spend on the extra cost of the UV catalyst. http://www.surfboardglassing.com
Doug.Good Question.I am about as old school as any other 56 year old around here and thumbed my nose at suncure for a year or so.I really like it.I have glassed a lot of boards so the time factor is no big thing with me but its everything to the beginner.I agree that it would be a pain for a large shop doing 20 boards per day as it would involve a lot of engineering.It still amazes me that I can glass a board and walk out to the yard and cure it instantly.I don’t really like it for hot coating or glossing.Kokua,Tom Sterne and Shawn Ambrose have some good statements in the archives.As for delams I can’t see any major difference.Potato Chips with four ounce glass jobs and Super Blue foam usually delam at the pressure dips anyway…whether you use UV resin or not.Probably the main thing is to add a bit of hardener to the suncure…I always do this as a backup.One thing I have discovered over the years is that when you fine sand a blank down to say…worn out 320 with a sponge pad you are actually “polishing” the foam which makes for a weaker bond.Seems to me like 180grit is as far as you should go.Yep,it may make your air brush work look funky but that’s a mute point to me if we are talking about strength.
Thanks for the feedback guys. I think I’ll give it a go. Doug
i use my hotcoat brush for 1/2 year now. No loose hairs anymore in the hotcoat. I pay even less than regular resin(without the mek)
Some MINOR cons about UV-cured resin. I don’t like the fact that if I drip any of it in my garage, it doesn’t harden by itself. I don’t like moving the board once it’s glassed. I find myself dawdling when using UV resin, which never happens w/ MEKP. I can’t glass in the evening or at night (I suppose if I got some lights, but …) like I said these are minor gripes… you should try it and see for yourself.
Keith if you put a little hardner in the resin it will get hard indoors.I agree about the night deal.Maybe a full moon…isn’t that just UV rays being reflected?Werewolves may be a hinderance though.
Yup… but if I’m putting a little catalyst in – why not just use regular resin? If it’s a full moon, I’ll go surfing. No point wasting all that light.
the few cons about the UV stuff are simply the fact that you can not do very dark tints or opque tints. I have done several tests to see just how dar you can. I got to about medium blue tint that has a real nice color that some might say be on the darker side of medium. But that’;s ok cause I really only like the look of lighter tinted boards. Also as far as strength goes, there is a very good argument that says that a UV cure is actually less brittle than resin cured with MEKP. Basically during the chemical reaction between the resin and catalyst, the MEKP in order to cure the resin breaks down the physical strength of the resin. I have heard this from a nuumber of sources, BUT non have ever presented any evidence supporting this idea. For a beginner, there is nothing better to learn how to glass a board than using UV resin. Drew
1 negative for me (backyard builder): If you use regular Suncure you have to glass in a closed off room with the door closed to block ALL stray bouncing UV’s or it will start going off faster than MEKP. Closed off room = really nasty and stinky with no natural light. Hard on the body. 1 positive for me: glass in the shade or in a room with an open door and before you pour out your resin, add a pinch of suncure powder and pull the board into the sun when you are finished with it - you get some ventalation and natural light to work with while keeping your gel time long enough PLUS it goes off hard in 15 min in the sun. 1 positive for everyone: patching a sand-through takes 5 min instead of 1.5 hours 1 more positive: if you run out of resin doing the laps, you dont have to mix more, just pout some out and slap in on! http://groups.msn.com/thegrasshoppersurfboard/shoebox.msnw
Yeah the whole thing about having a dark room is tough for the backyard folks such as myself, last year my housemate glassed one in the kitchen. We put up blankets on the windows and news paper on the floor. He only managed to turn a few spots of linolieum red.
Howzit Keith, I know what you mean about the dawdling. I caught myself doing it also. Now I check the clock before I start and make sure I’m doing the lamination in the same amount of time as if using catalyst. But if there’s a problem ( Murphy’s law ) it’s nice to know you have time to correct it before the resin kicks. As for glassing after dark, you need to get a light system. If you think about it, glassing at night could be a good thing. You don’t have to have an enclosed shop since moon light won’t kick the resin. One thing about UV lighting is you need to warm up the lights for about 15 minutes before putting the board under them. I love the stuff. Aloha, Kokua
I find my laps turn out darker with suncure. I don’t use volan, but you can see the (free) laps more so than with MEKP. Anyone else? How much are lights and where do you get them? Aren’t there a couple of different types of UV lights?
don’t have surfboard experience yet, but learnt with my fish tank it is much cheaper to go to the hardware store (home depot) than the fish store. The light fixture is just a standard florecent light. So buy cheap ones and pick sizes that are easy to get UV bulbs in. All the cost is in the bulb. For fish and plants you get a full-spectrum bulb. Not sure if there is a difference between full-spectrum and and UV or if that is the only way to get the UV. good luck, I’ll be setting up my UV glassing garage shortly. --4est
I noticed dark laps too, i wonder if its the resin or the cloth.
I actualy like glassing at night with the UV stuff. Check it in the morning and make sure it’s all still there nice and tight, and then take it out in the daylight!!! Light…that’s what kicks it. Sunlight is great, but cloudy days…just as good. Rainy days…just as good. Humidity…not a factor. And even if there were some daylight creepin in through the cracks, unless you are really, REALLY slow at glassing it won’t be a problem. in fact I glass in my garage and a wee bit of light makes it’s way in but what that does is rebound off the floor and begins curing the laps just enought to let me pick up and bring it to the sun without messing up my rails. Also the stuff is less toxic. But you still need the respirator. Drew
hey i was reading this thread and was about to do a dark green pigmented lam, i wanted to try the UV lam, because ive never used it, but some say that it wont cure with dark pigments, also ive heard if you add some MEKP that it will work, if so how much do you add (for a 9’6) and will it turn out as good as a regular pigmented lam?
Are you using UV tubes in a light box setup?
I pretty much sing praises for UV resin…when it first came out I was doing a full time repair shop and less board production at the time…man, turnover in repairs is what it’s all about so I was very happy to see this product.
I know people have mentioned the hotcoat being problematic, but I don’t really get that…even on full deck or bottoms- you just have to wait for the wax (surfacing agent) to rise. Put in a bit more if you want. I was mixing my own UV and playing with it to see what I could get…you can make too hot a mix and these can look real yellow (or worse) if you’re not careful.
I had a sliding door and a bunch or racks outside that I’d be running boards in and out all day long. Had one of those portable phone headsets that picks up calls from the landline (your dialer is a little box clipped to your belt) so I could just keep going all day long this way…everyone across the lot at Beatty’s was calling me “Madonna” with the contraption on…hey it more than paid for itself!
I did one board with a logo laminate like I would normally have done with catalyst…slather some onto the foam (or dip the logo in the bucket), squeegee it down, roll the cloth back down and laminate the board with freelap…then boom - out in the sun. Then someone said “that logo is going to bubble up”! It never did. Nowadays a lot of guys layup logos 'the old way" with 1/2% MEKP (catalyst) mixed in the UV so they can do the logo work and lam in one swoop. Too much MEKP and the board can turn yellow. This is being done regularly in production shops I will not name.
Another day at my repair shop there was a lot of work and it was raining then sunny then raining…kinda like Hawaii, a big raindrops and partly cloudy…good chance for another UV test, so I did up a repair draped some wax paper over the top and stuck it out on the rack. The guys over at Beatty were looking at me figuring the resin had finally taken the rest of my brain. I left it out for a bit longer than usual then brought her inand peeled the paper…cured and ready to go. How much UV do you really need?
Before UV I was playing with resin on cold days because I had to get those repairs cranked out to pay the rent (and the customer back in the water), I started using a microwave (OMG you can’t do that!) and cutting back on the catalyst. Mind you, we are talking about increments of seconds here…small amounts on repairs. I had to watch it when “nuking” resin with Q cell, and found the way to do that was with the resin first then stir in the MEKP, then add the Q cell.
So the M/W agitated the resin molecules (kinda like those heart chargers…“CLEAR”! … saved time and money.
I pretty much stayed in the 2, 3, 5, 7 seconds range…beyond that was extreme. Saved a lot on MEKP. Plus there was a time when the old high powered MEKP was getting weaker and you had to use more (hey boss, if they use more will make more money…“Clarence, you’re a genius”! You could get then get single or double strength (maybe even triple) but it cost more.
If I wasn’t allowed to do this, nobody told me. And I didn’t have repairs come back, didn’t have problems with my own boards, and never saw evidence of anything I did that I should go to hell for.
Yeah UV is a great thing. MEKP has it’s uses too but I’m with the guy that said if he could do fin boxes and cups this way he’d never have MEKP again. Ever get a catalyst burn on your face?
I’ve only laminated a few boards with UV but I would highly recommend it. Just add a little MEKP for the drips that get on the floor. For hot coating I still use MEKP though, UV is a little quick in that department for my liking.
Is anyone here aware of an Epoxy UV cure system?
rif.