I just read an interview with Yvon Chouinard in Surfer’s Path. He states that when you use UV curing polyester resin the board loses 30% of its strength. Is this true? UV seems to be the way a lot of people are going, but the strength issue is new to me.
Howzit elewis, I've been using UV resin for over 4 years now and haven't noticed any increased breakage of boards. In fact I had other glassers try to tell me that UV resin gets to hard which in turn affects the flexability of the board. About 8 months ago I switched to a blended resin( 2140) but still UV, it is stronger and the boards decks ane not denting nearly as much. Aloha,Kokua
Kokua,
Could you elaborate on the 2140 resin. Do you add the UV catalyst yourself?
Aloha,
Dave_D
Quote:
I just read an interview with Yvon Chouinard in Surfer's Path. He states that when you use UV curing polyester resin the board loses 30% of its strength. Is this true? UV seems to be the way a lot of people are going, but the strength issue is new to me.
Are you sure it wasn’t UV curing EPOXY resin he was referring to?
The UV polyester resins seem fine to me as long as the UV can penetrate the resin. You might wanna add some MEKP if you are setting finboxes.
Howzit Dave, It's an iso/ortho blend that I get from Fiberglass Hi. which they add the UV catalyst to. It's been around for a while and Greg L said they've been using it in Florida for a while with good results. I'm not a chemist so I can't give you any particulars on it. The first time I used it I noticed it has an odd odor to it and called F.H. to find out about it's toxic downside and they said it's actually less toxic. It's alsoa little more expensive than regular surf lam resin. Aloha,Kokua
We’ve noticed that UV resin was appearing to act more brittle. We have no test data to back up our subjective claim but there seems to be a trend of UV boards having more brittle failures. As for the ortho/iso blend we can say that the stuff is unreal; quite noticibly stronger (even the UV version) and dent resistant. This type of polyester resin is unfortunately illegal in southern California; which kills it for us. I am hearing great things about it elsewhere though… With the correct cloth the stuff is even stronger.
Here’s a thought…MEKP is a chemical agent that in order to catalyse the resin, actually has to break down the molecular bond of said resin. when this occurs it would seem to me that this would lcause the catalysed resin being more brittle then UV stuff…
whatcha think about that? Off base? On base?
Drew
Howzit PlusOne, Didn't know the iso/ortho blend was illegal in Ca., find that somewhat interesting since Fiberglass Hi told me it was less toxic than regular resin. Makes me wonder if F.H. was pulling my leg. Do you have any info on the properties of the blended resin. Must say I'm very happy with the results from using it. Aloha,Kokua
Yo Kokua.I was using a blended resin from Atlantic Surf Materials in Melbourne,Florida that was very nice.It had slight honey color to it and like yours had a different smell.It held up longer and jelled more like the old Dion (a slow jell but fast end cure).Back then I was not yet on the suncure deal.Sounds like you have something similiar.I am glad to see that at least a few glass shops are willing to spend a bit more for better resin.It makes a huge difference in the long run.Happy Festivus to all. RB
Hey Kokua, it’s a bit of a contradiction but it’s true. The fact is, that all polyester resin is illegal in southern California mandated by laws originating from the 1980’s. The laws are not strictly enforced for existing resins although I hear some glass shops in LA have to use Silmar S-249A,LH (low hazard, reduced styrene content). The EPA has been to our shop and I understand soon others in our vicinity; basically they just had us pay them the same fees as last year. The introduction of the “new” Y2K ortho/iso hybrid means it does not get under the radar of old pre-existing resins. What Dave at FGH seems to be pushing is that the UV aspect of Y2K means it pollutes less while in transistion (3 minutes rather than 20) and the nature of the isothalic component seems to be somewhat less toxic. So he is right about being less toxic than the regular stuff. It would be great to have legitimate resin here; Greg Loehr’s RR Epoxy passes the air standards in our area with flying colors. Have you checked out some of the radical lam techniques those guys up in Santa Cruz are doing? Really light. Sorry I don’t have any physicals on the resin, but based upon field testing (we don’t use it on production boards) they seem stronger…
The law you refering to is SCAQMD 1162 which has been on the books but not enforced to surfboard builders since the 80’s. As of Jan 1, 1162 goes federal and is called MACT. Basiclly pretty much all polyester surfboard resins are illegal nationwide for standard hand layup. It is still fine in closed mold applications and for RTM, RTM lite, vac bagging, etc.
Here is an excerpt from a swaylocks post of about a year and a half ago by Sluggo…by the way, where is Sluggo?
1162 has made most the Socal FRP industry change from ortho’s to DCPD’s which can be produced with lower VOC levels at the same viscosity. Low VOC gel coats and Iso’s and VE have also been introduced with some success that meet these requirements. Also closed molding methods like infusion, RTM lite and vacuum bagging are growing in use with polyester resins helping companies get under the VOC emission levels.
MACT standards hit nationwide in about 1.5 years. This is basically a national version of the SCAQMD 1162 ruling. http://www.cfa-hq.org/ga/mact-standards.cfm has all the info on MACT for composites.
Funny thing is surfboard resin is too high styrene to meet these new rules, also surfboard manufactures HATE change and it will be hard to get new resins accepted regardless of the rules. Eventually everybody will have to switch to something different because of these new rules. Probably your best bet at getting glass shops to look at epoxies.