Vetted and Valid Lam Schedules

General Discussion
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1)  I’ve been using 3 by 4 on the deck with the middle layer rotated 45.  Double 4 on the bottom with the layer against the foam rotated. This seems to me to be a good standard all round lam for hand lam’s (no vac) that should be easily achievable by most.

  1. Another one I like that has really held up well is 6 ox X glass on the foam deck with a 4 oz cover and some extra 4 oz patches under feet.  I Wrap the rails with the X glass and hang the covering f4 oz about a half inch more to overlap the X.    This give 10 total  overall on the deck with 14 oz where the patches are.   I like this one.  Very tough (using strength of materials vernacular).  Either single 6 or double 4 on the bottom.

 

I have some Cerex I’d like to try but I can’t decide whether it would be better sandwiched between two 4 oz layers or better just on the foam for better adhesion.  I’d only use it on the deck.

I know it would be a lot to ask, but it would be great if we could put something up that gave 4 or five good, well vetted lam schedules and some pro’s and con’s.  Hey, it could happen.

 

Who has a thought.

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Hi Greg -

After reading Benjamin Thompson's report about the various lam schedules they tried, I tried the alternating 'bias' weave double 4 on a PU blank with epoxy resin.  I'm a believer.  It's simple and effective.  I am unable to pressure dent or deform the laminate with my thumbs... at all. 

I just used regular cloth and pulled opposite corners to shift the weave from 90 degrees.  On the second layer, I pulled the corners opposite from the first.  Kind of a poor man's 45 bias weave... not really a true 45 degree weave but still getting the effect of interesecting fiber direction in stacked layers. 

I haven't messed around with any of the exotics like Innegra or Cerex.  I'm convinced, after reading Thompson's report, that there are diminishing returns at some point.

On patches... in the old days when guys knee paddled, it wasn't uncommon to wax a new board, knee paddle for awhile, and glass patches only where the knee dents occurred.  Hard on the knees but it stopped the denting and likely prevented delams down the road.

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greg i will come back to night when i get time

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cheers huie

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Per Bill Thrailkill (still locked out):

“Aloha Greg,
I’m still locked out, except for PM’s. Since around 1972 or 1973, my
go tp lam schedule has been 3 x 4oz deck, and single 6oz bottom. Deck
laps stagger cut with a 1.5 inch cut lap top and bottom. Double
hotcoat top and bottom for MAXIMUM block sanding/truing/shaping, after
machine sanding. Not a production technique, but it allowed me to
‘‘final shape’’ the board before gloss. Gloss is applied to bottom and
rails only. Deck is left sanded to 320 grit w/d. My 7’ 10’’ x 21.5’’
board, done this way, was 12 pounds back in the 70’s. Heavy by some
standards today, but ahead of the curve then.
Aloha,
Bill”

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My “go to” lam for bamboo a vac bagged deck is to put 4 oz under the bamboo on the deck rotated 45 degrees, then bamboo vac bagged.  Then hand lam a 4 oz for the cover with some foot patches.  On the bottom, I just go with bamboo and a 4 oz cover.  And some patches under the bamboo for the fins.   Adds a fraction of an ounce but lets me sleep better, and no one has ever returned a board for a popped fin box.

I’m looking for a good proven lam stack that uses Cerex and is more than just a so called Pro Glass job.  I want my boards to last.  I spend a lot of time on them.  They are like children.  I often hate to part with them.

I think when I have a good proven lam stack with Cerex, I am going to start wet vac bagging.  I have been anxious to give that a try.

I’m not asking for your proprietary build, just some proven guidance with a few pro’s and con’s.

 

All the best,

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What type and density of foam guys?

 

My most durable so far on 1.5# EPS is 2oz under, bamboo/mahogany veneer, 4oz over with two 2oz deck patches at +45 and -45. Only problem is 2oz patches show air bubbles badlynover the dark mahogany. But not a pressure ding under bachfoot over two years.

 

 

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Im interested to hear what some of the strongest hand laminating schedules are so great thread idea Greg!

I get most of my boards contract glassed with a pretty standard 4oz double layer deck and single 4oz bottom, which is ample for performance etc but would really like to try to make them a bit stronger in terms of pressure dings etc.

Apart from doubling up on 6oz decks etc im intrigued to know if anyone has tried the Quad Axial cloth( pictured below) and if that can add significant strength along with a 4oz over?

I have not tried Cerex but have hand laminated some innegra and couldnt see the benefit doing it that way as it added lots of weight etc, 

Have yet to properly test the strength of a Linen material which is around 6 ounce with a 4oz or 5oz over on the deck but it seems pretty strong to the touch or thumb test…

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[quote="$1"]

Im interested to hear what some of the strongest hand laminating schedules are so great thread idea Greg!

I get most of my boards contract glassed with a pretty standard 4oz double layer deck and single 4oz bottom, which is ample for performance etc but would really like to try to make them a bit stronger in terms of pressure dings etc. [/quote]

thats about as far as what is safe for selling   the next step down is eggshell

[quote] Apart from doubling up on 6oz decks etc im intrigued to know if anyone has tried the Quad Axial cloth( pictured below) and if that can add significant strength along with a 4oz over? [/quote]

1 yr ago i built a twinzer 6oz e bottom   deck 1x 1oz cerex 1 x4oz tri axell `1 x4 oz e glass   cerex next to foam

gloss coat top and bottom   then rubbed out .      

   this board found its way back to me a few weeks ago a cple of small  dents  (not golf balls)  on deck my special dent resistor fixed that.   so the board is looking as good as new     but the deck looks crap the tri axell look like shit so i have sorted that and it awaits a new gloss so i will get a few pics and post as i finish it''   this is one tough board

so thats on my to do list  haaa''  (along with every other thing) so the next one i will try to change a few things

[quote] I have not tried Cerex but have hand laminated some innegra and couldnt see the benefit doing it that way as it added lots of weight etc, [/quote]

best to wet these fabrics out on a wet out table then roll it on to a roller and roll it back out on board  do it with each layer

if you want you can use  peel ply take your time get it neat and tight   stick it under vacum 10 -12 hg she will come out smicko

if you want the glasswork to nice and white  final sand  your blank course

mix up some epoxy  about 2-3 oz some whit pigment not to much add micro ballons i use micro light not to thick as long as its not runny

 you can use a spreader but i find a norml rubber sqeege easiest take your time and do this job real neat best to leave overnight

next day give it a nice hand sand 120 grit   then do the vac glass job

[quote] Have yet to properly test the strength of a Linen material which is around 6 ounce with a 4oz or 5oz over on the deck but it seems pretty strong to the touch or thumb test... [/quote]

haaa' we can go on forever   i will try to post other stuff as i get time

cheers huie

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 greg i will get a few things together for you over the next few days  nocean has run me out of time haaaaaa’’

 

  cheers huie

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Oops. Major oversight on my part. Foam density is a big factor here. I have been using 1.5 pound but have now switched to 2.0 pound. Ben T proved to me that a quality core is really critical in earlier posts.

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Cheers for the tips Huie!!,

Im buliding most all of my boards with Pu so some of the above is not applicable because as you say Greg foam density is an important factor,  going to try the Quad axial plus some 5oz soon and will report…