lcc, Very interesting and eloquently put. As a windsurfer crossing from the darkside to surfing, I was surprised volume wasn’t used. Volume is probably quoted in windsurfing as its more critical for uphauling, water-starting and tacking. Virtually all the boards are non-custom (in Europe at least), and come from manufacturers with fairly limited standard ranges probably all with CNC cut blanks. Firewire are just the surfing equivalent of F2, JP Australia, AHD or Fanatic.
RobW, Small beers! Standard beer size here is 0.568 litres ;oD
LOL…hardly. My son and I have had an ongoing discussion about board design since he first paddled out with me 20 years ago, and found his personal increasing focus on volume as a critical dim while updating his quiver, from grovler to DOH - TOH SF OB gun, food for thought. And now find myself more informed, as I often am after spending time here.
I know volumne and I know where it belongs. BUT: It is not always necessary. In your first post you were primarily speaking of a shape that could be altered. But when you change the emphasis to a surfer and a shape(ie. something that fits his ability, weight, height and strength) you are talking "Custom". I've got nothing against CNC and have used Machines in the past and will in the future; but altering a program doesn't equate to a custom shaped piece of foam shaped for ONE individual.
…so this is my first time checking this thread out of curiosity, this is one that nobody cares (due to the hit counter-only the participants-) however have several pages of discussion and I decided to see what s exactly going on.
-the thing about volume in the real world is that there s a big % of surfers or “aspiring to be” that do not give a fuck if a smaller board STILL can hold them and float them…I mean, they WANT bigger longer boards; they do not like small boards, do not like potato chips, do not like fish, even less modern fish; do not like mini eggs; do not like rockets or like that. I repeat: they like and want bigger boards and longer boards…and longboards.
I see and have these customers in DAILY basis. I heard and listen to them in surf shops, talking to the clerk and sometimes with me. Big proportion of customers that bring on the wshop is in this group.
I talk to them about the possibilities to design something smaller that still float…they do not like, period.
They dream on step boards and longer boards.
—also, windsurf boards?! those things are vessels and dead too
“altering a program doesn’t equate to a custom shaped piece of foam shaped for ONE individual.”
And
that’s the rub - marketing hype is changing what the masses now
consider a custom board. That by ordering a 5’10 ‘pick a model’
adjusted to their requested volume, it’s a ‘custom’ board, instead of
just the volume adjusted generic run-off it actually is.
Mike, saw you calling out the volume measurement years ago as a vital measurement, and consider your boards cutting edge apex of technology and design, as custom as boards can be.
The whole intent of starting this thread was not to challenge the legitimacy of volume as a pertinent measurement (my hands have been measuring rail volume for decades and knows the moment I pick up a board whether the rail volume is right for me or not), it was to call out how volume is now being used as the primary driver in Big Box surfboard manufacturing marketing to shift the mass perception of what a custom surfboard truly is, in the wrong way.
Dont be so hard on yourself Mike… I started writing it on in 2003… in 2005 i had a discussion and number check with Fynn at ishapes (GWS) and we confirmed the .35 ratio at the time… when i published all the info on my website then we tried to enforce that it was only an extra measurment to guide you in learning more about your favourite shapes… just out of interests sake, if your boards are handshapes how do you accuratly measure the volumes…?
That’s right Dave, it’s your fault in the southern hemisphere and mine up here. I’m happy to have someone to share the blame.
Our process is different - that’s where my comment about ‘‘doing everything the way everybody else does it’’ came from. There’s handshaped, there’s CNC, then there’s Coil.
Funny how we talked about it on here 5 or 6 years ago, then all of sudden in the last year or two all the consignment kings have it all over their websites.
I feel a little silly answering this cause you’ve forgotten more than I’ll probly ever know, but since you asked . . .
If you know the exact density of the foam (easy to determine with an uncut block of EPS) and don’t have to account for the weight of any pesky stringer material, simply weighing your finished shape on an accurate scale allows you to calculate quite precisely the volume.
Of course, this only works with stringerless EPS construction.
And, since I’m now participating in the discussion, my opinion on the original question: volume should absolutely be taken into consideration, but is only one metric that needs to be considered along with all the others. Shapers have been doing it for years, just not necessarily thinking about it in those terms.
Ah ha ha! Good point, got me there. 0.650 litres. I didnt mean to bring into question your ability to take booze. I worked in Hondo, Texas for a few months and soon realised I was a super light-weight. I went out in San Antonio for the night with one of the locals and matched him pint for pint. Whilst I could barely stand up, he drove us home ;oD
Ah ha ha! Good point, got me there. 0.650 litres. I didnt mean to bring
into question your ability to take booze. I worked in Hondo, Texas for a
few months and soon realised I was a super light-weight. I went out in
San Antonio for the night with one of the locals and matched him pint
for pint. Whilst I could barely stand up, he drove us home ;oD
Classic! We could start a thread about beer intake volume… Ha!
I still “stand” by my assertion - I like a thin, narrow tail.
Heya Keith. I’m not saying this is how Mike does it (cause I don’t know how Mike does it) but if you look at my last post on this thread, I summarized how to calculate volume with stringerless EPS construction.
With regular poly blanks, without a computer you can only come up with a very rough approximation at best.