Eastern Pac, deadset, thank-you very much for posting that…can’t believe the modern outline on that 1950 kivlin redwood. wow. cheers mate.
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Eastern Pac, deadset, thank-you very much for posting that…can’t believe the modern outline on that 1950 kivlin redwood. wow. cheers mate.
No doubt…things of beauty. Amazing how little some planshapes have changed.
The issues I have with putting together a shapers tree and the like is reputation is all some of these guys have. If you leave them out of their place and put someone else in their place you have stolen what is rightfully theirs and thus made a mockery of the entire thing. If it cannot be done right…why bother. Close is not good enough when it comes to something like a shapers tree.
I didn’t say Randy’s affiliation was political. I said all of the big names affiliation was political because it is. I wonder if they would boycott if they were left out? Just plain talk here…not attempting to be overly critical.
Lennox76,
Your comment about the 1950 Kivlin RW, is bang on. I had the same reaction, a little over two years ago, when I saw it for the first time. I had heard stories about Matt from Jim Fisher, and Buzzy Trent, about his prowess, both as a surfer, and a designer/shaper. Looking back at the progression of board design, Kivlin appears to have been 20/25 years ahead of everyone else, at that time. The photo is impressive enough, yet the board is even more impressive in person.
The Kivlin is even more impressive when you realise that those guys were surfing the boards in the same crappy, dumping Samta Monica Bay waves that I was in yesterday, albeit with cleaner water. Pretty incredible they even bothered to keep at it, let alone advance the design aspects of the sport so dramatically. The Simmons boards are off the hook too- foiled hulls and weird twin keels so far ahead the curve it’s hard to grasp. Not a surfwear company in sight in those days either.
Did they not surf Palos Verdes back then ?
But yeah , very advanced understanding…I sometimes think the actual understanding of hydrodynamics and what makes surfboards work has not advanced that much since Simmons. well,actually, Greenough.
Lennox,
true on both counts, those guys had the whole bay to play in with next to no-one else out so I bet the good days were real good and probably pretty damn cold with no wetties. You’re right about GG too- it had all pretty much been done by then, lately our design genius’ have just been refining it all. For which I’m very thankful, I love the scope of interesting boards that’s there for me to play with if I choose. Must have been a trip to figure out that a fin was good idea though! Those guys were heroes, no doubt about it.
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Did they not surf Palos Verdes back then ?But yeah , very advanced understanding…I sometimes think the actual understanding of hydrodynamics and what makes surfboards work has not advanced that much since Simmons. well,actually, Greenough.
Rocker configurations matured into the 1990s.
The older boards sometimes had modern looking planshapes, but they were all flat as barn doors.
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Lennox,
true on both counts, those guys had the whole bay to play in with next to no-one else out so I bet the good days were real good and probably pretty damn cold with no wetties. You’re right about GG too- it had all pretty much been done by then, lately our design genius’ have just been refining it all. For which I’m very thankful, I love the scope of interesting boards that’s there for me to play with if I choose. Must have been a trip to figure out that a fin was good idea though! Those guys were heroes, no doubt about it.
The fact that they studied what it was they wanted to do before going out and attempting to do it is what I like. Especially in the era of easy to shape blanks. These guys carved the stuff out of wood or thick blobs of foam.
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Quote:Rocker configurations matured into the 1990s.
The older boards sometimes had modern looking planshapes, but they were all flat as barn doors.
Rockers changed sure, by degree, as did a few other things but mostly empirically and I’m not sure with any real understanding as to what was going on and why. It seems a comprehensive and primary understanding of the first principles of surfboard design has been somewhat lilliputian compared to the understanding and level of genius of Simmons/Greenough etal. The next Greenough or Simmons may be out there somewhere now…if so I believe they are somewhere in the third world isolated from the weakening influences of western culture.
I’d rather make a donation towards the work of providing filtration for African drinking water. If that’s possible, provide details for us.
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I’d rather make a donation towards the work of providing filtration for African drinking water. If that’s possible, provide details for us.
Hear Hear
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The issues I have with putting together a shapers tree and the like is reputation is all some of these guys have. If you leave them out of their place and put someone else in their place you have stolen what is rightfully theirs and thus made a mockery of the entire thing. If it cannot be done right....why bother. Close is not good enough when it comes to something like a shapers tree.
Man… I go away for a couple weeks…
Dude… you’ve got a skewed view of what the intentions behind the tree are. George Orbelian and I thought there should be SOME record of the shapers who’ve contributed to our sport (religion). We never thought we’d get it 100% correct right off the bat. We just wanted to get it started, then hand it off to the right people to make it right. We couldn’t think of anyone better than SHF - they are really well intentioned, and not in it for the money. Sure, some of their supporters are “evil industry giants”, but that doesn’t sway the workhorses at the foundation. They are working 12 - 16 hour days for a fraction of what they could get paid doing something else. If you knew what their curator was getting paid, you’d wonder why he’s willing to work so hard. I can’t even survive on twice that. Those guys are giving their sweat and blood to document surf history to the best of their abilities. Their intentions are pure.
What you saw in Surfing was a half completed list at best. They really wanted to put it in their mag at the time they did, and they filled in some of our holes (and miscorrected others) under tight deadline pressure. The first “tree” we’re aware of was run in Surfing years twenty something years ago - that’s what helped spawn our efforts - so we thought they deserved to publish an updated version with our new info.
We haven’t - and never will - make a dime off the list. We’ve spent many, many thousands of dollars getting to where it is now - still in need of updating.
If you want it to be 100% accurate, SHF would be stoked if you’d donate your time to correct the mistakes and fill in the blanks. If you don’t like who’s been working on it, jump in. They are hugely dependant on volunteers at the Foundation. Although they’re not perfect… they’re trying really hard.
As long as you’re looking at the contributors, don’t forget the ones who aren’t rich industry moguls. They also have a long list of supporters who don’t have disposable income, but trickle what they can to SHF because they believe in the cause. To me, one of the most impressive things about the Foundation is the diversity of supporters. If you haven’t been there… go. It will change the way you think of them.
Project I am working on (and there are many, many others) is the tweed community Kenya mentoring program (TKMP) which works on safewater projects for rural Kenyan villages. Funds donated are held in trust by the International river Foundation, a not for profit and all contributions are tax deductible. The head of the Kenyan desk is Olita Ongonjo. E him at olitac@hotmail.com , if you are interested in donating coin. steve
Quote:
Quote:The issues I have with putting together a shapers tree and the like is reputation is all some of these guys have. If you leave them out of their place and put someone else in their place you have stolen what is rightfully theirs and thus made a mockery of the entire thing. If it cannot be done right…why bother. Close is not good enough when it comes to something like a shapers tree.
Man… I go away for a couple weeks…
Dude… you’ve got a skewed view of what the intentions behind the tree are. George Orbelian and I thought there should be SOME record of the shapers who’ve contributed to our sport (religion). We never thought we’d get it 100% correct right off the bat. We just wanted to get it started, then hand it off to the right people to make it right. We couldn’t think of anyone better than SHF - they are really well intentioned, and not in it for the money. Sure, some of their supporters are “evil industry giants”, but that doesn’t sway the workhorses at the foundation. They are working 12 - 16 hour days for a fraction of what they could get paid doing something else. If you knew what their curator was getting paid, you’d wonder why he’s willing to work so hard. I can’t even survive on twice that. Those guys are giving their sweat and blood to document surf history to the best of their abilities. Their intentions are pure.
What you saw in Surfing was a half completed list at best. They really wanted to put it in their mag at the time they did, and they filled in some of our holes (and miscorrected others) under tight deadline pressure. The first “tree” we’re aware of was run in Surfing years twenty something years ago - that’s what helped spawn our efforts - so we thought they deserved to publish an updated version with our new info.
We haven’t - and never will - make a dime off the list. We’ve spent many, many thousands of dollars getting to where it is now - still in need of updating.
If you want it to be 100% accurate, SHF would be stoked if you’d donate your time to correct the mistakes and fill in the blanks. If you don’t like who’s been working on it, jump in. They are hugely dependant on volunteers at the Foundation. Although they’re not perfect… they’re trying really hard.
As long as you’re looking at the contributors, don’t forget the ones who aren’t rich industry moguls. They also have a long list of supporters who don’t have disposable income, but trickle what they can to SHF because they believe in the cause. To me, one of the most impressive things about the Foundation is the diversity of supporters. If you haven’t been there… go. It will change the way you think of them.
I made it a point in my first few post to note the intentions of yourself and others appeared to be on the level. I also noted some of those involved that I respect that are on the first 100 list. My opinion of institutions remains uchanged for most all of them in the end. The begining of them is usually the best part of them. I respect that others feel different and enjoy participating. I guess I am an anarchist at heart…what can I say.
As for surfing being a religion…that would present an entire new set of issues and neurosis me thinks. I love it dearly…my love for the art has cost me at times, but I certainly don’t consider it my religion. I like the John Lennon line…and no religion too.
B
9/1/07
Aloha to everyone on this thread,
And especially to Bill Thrailkill for starting it up!
I was in California last week for the SIMA Waterman’s Ball and the tribute to Fred Hemmings at The Surfing Heritage Foundation (SHF). I hadn’t been to the SHF for over a year and I was impressed at their progress. After touring around and hearing the pitch from director Tom Pezman that they had received space allocation from the city of Dana Point to relocate to a bigger premise down on PCH by Salt Creek, and now just needed more funding to make this come to fruition, I was stoked! This is such a cool thing for surfing! I initally was reserved on this project, waiting for “The hook”, as to just what it was all about. But after a couple of years, these guys have proved their worth and are the “real deal”. This function with Hemmings was really nice and while it was a pitch for more doner support, that was OK. With out anyone expecting it, I was moved to take some of the proceeds from last months surf auction and re-direct them to the SHF and, I decided that $10,000 was a small amount that may go in the right direction.
I did this because I believe it what the SHF is doing. They didn’t expect it and in fact were blown away that I donated this amount. But to tell you the truth, if I had more, I would of given it!
There are so few people that have the means and the where with all to really support the heritage and history of our sport. Dick Metz and Spencer Croul and all the founding memebers had the vision to do this and of all the people who believe in perpetuating our sport, the SHF is the best of them all!
So, for me, I was stoked to contribute and hopefully it will go to a good effort on their part.
The Waterman’s Ball raised over $600,000 that went to 16 different enviromental funds, so I did my part by attending. For the SHF, they represent my passion of old boards, history of our sport and promoting it to future generations. So, I showed my “true colors”, by putting my money where my mouth was.
Don’t need to be praised or acknowledged (But, thanks Bill anyway!!), just stoked to “give back”, what surfing has given me such joy and pleasure. Nobody else should feel they have to give. If you want to, do so. If not, don’t worry about it, no one is looking over your shoulder or checking!
So, to everyone out there, in what ever way makes you feel good, give something and you’ll be surprised at how much you get back!
Aloha from Hawaii
Randy Rarick
Quote:
9/1/07
Aloha to everyone on this thread,
And especially to Bill Thrailkill for starting it up!
I was in California last week for the SIMA Waterman’s Ball and the tribute to Fred Hemmings at The Surfing Heritage Foundation (SHF). I hadn’t been to the SHF for over a year and I was impressed at their progress. After touring around and hearing the pitch from director Tom Pezman that they had received space allocation from the city of Dana Point to relocate to a bigger premise down on PCH by Salt Creek, and now just needed more funding to make this come to fruition, I was stoked! This is such a cool thing for surfing! I initally was reserved on this project, waiting for “The hook”, as to just what it was all about. But after a couple of years, these guys have proved their worth and are the “real deal”. This function with Hemmings was really nice and while it was a pitch for more doner support, that was OK. With out anyone expecting it, I was moved to take some of the proceeds from last months surf auction and re-direct them to the SHF and, I decided that $10,000 was a small amount that may go in the right direction.
I did this because I believe it what the SHF is doing. They didn’t expect it and in fact were blown away that I donated this amount. But to tell you the truth, if I had more, I would of given it!
There are so few people that have the means and the where with all to really support the heritage and history of our sport. Dick Metz and Spencer Croul and all the founding memebers had the vision to do this and of all the people who believe in perpetuating our sport, the SHF is the best of them all!
So, for me, I was stoked to contribute and hopefully it will go to a good effort on their part.
The Waterman’s Ball raised over $600,000 that went to 16 different enviromental funds, so I did my part by attending. For the SHF, they represent my passion of old boards, history of our sport and promoting it to future generations. So, I showed my “true colors”, by putting my money where my mouth was.
Don’t need to be praised or acknowledged (But, thanks Bill anyway!!), just stoked to “give back”, what surfing has given me such joy and pleasure. Nobody else should feel they have to give. If you want to, do so. If not, don’t worry about it, no one is looking over your shoulder or checking!
So, to everyone out there, in what ever way makes you feel good, give something and you’ll be surprised at how much you get back!
Aloha from Hawaii
Randy Rarick
As I said…I certainly respect the opinions of both Bill and yourself. Thanks for your post. Look forward to hearing some of your tales of the early pro tour and board design.
9/1/07
Thanks for the nice response. I’d be stoked to relay tales of the early pro days and with over 12,000 boards under the plainer, got plenty of design tales as well!
Hopefully it will stay positive, as it seems there is always someone out there taking the dark side, rather than keeping it on the up side!
Aloha,
Randy
Stoked is what the museum is, having a benefactor like you, RR.
Shaper joke/serious question: With all that experience and all those boards, is there anything you’re just itching to share?
Hmmmm, just itching to share? Now that makes for some interesting thoughts.
Because I run the pro contests on the North Shore, I interact with all the contemporary pros and all the sponsors and assorted details that come with it. I think there is no doubt that guys like Slater and Irons and Fanning, et all, are without a doubt the best competitive surfers in the world. Generally they all tend to ride the same type of boards and obviously ride them damn good. But I maintain (in relative terms, compairing the styles and equipment) that on the North Shore, specifically at Sunset, the surfing that went down in the early to mid-70’s was better than what is going on today. Early in the 70’s guys like B.K., Hakman, Fitz, were fading deeper and laying their boards over on a rail and POWER surfing a lot harder. They were backed up by the likes of Bobby Owens, Butch Perreira and Gary Elkerton in the later 70’s and early 80’s. By all means, the guys are quick today, the three fin board allows for more snap off the top and they are certainly getting more radical and vertical. But, you don’t see that translated on the big open faces at Sunset. For sure they are getting deeper and more tubed and tighter in the pocket at places like Off The Wall and Backdoor Pipe, but back at Sunset, I just don’t see the power commitment.
Just an observation, having both been out in the water and running the events for the past 30 years.
Was I itching to share that? Not really, but gives some food for thought.
Aloha,
Randy