Yeah, well…now that goes to show something doesn’t it. Sunset is a whole different beast. My 8’4" got treated like a toothpick out there. How about a nostalgia contest at sunset with only singles and bonzers? The mags would be all over it.
Talk about food for thought! That was maybe the most fun post I’ve read in a while.
It seems like that hard-charging, hard-carving classic style is down to design features like really hard down rails, straighter outlines back to the tail, flatter rockers, no rail fins, and resultant higher speeds. Is that true?
Oh and less flex.
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Hmmmm, just itching to share? Now that makes for some interesting thoughts.
Because I run the pro contests on the North Shore, I interact with all the contemporary pros and all the sponsors and assorted details that come with it. I think there is no doubt that guys like Slater and Irons and Fanning, et all, are without a doubt the best competitive surfers in the world. Generally they all tend to ride the same type of boards and obviously ride them damn good. But I maintain (in relative terms, compairing the styles and equipment) that on the North Shore, specifically at Sunset, the surfing that went down in the early to mid-70’s was better than what is going on today. Early in the 70’s guys like B.K., Hakman, Fitz, were fading deeper and laying their boards over on a rail and POWER surfing a lot harder. They were backed up by the likes of Bobby Owens, Butch Perreira and Gary Elkerton in the later 70’s and early 80’s. By all means, the guys are quick today, the three fin board allows for more snap off the top and they are certainly getting more radical and vertical. But, you don’t see that translated on the big open faces at Sunset. For sure they are getting deeper and more tubed and tighter in the pocket at places like Off The Wall and Backdoor Pipe, but back at Sunset, I just don’t see the power commitment.
Just an observation, having both been out in the water and running the events for the past 30 years.
Was I itching to share that? Not really, but gives some food for thought.
Aloha,
Randy
It’s funny…I have been thinking that simply from footage I have seen over the years and the times I have been to Hawaii’s North Shore myself. Looking at footage…I think Elkerton was one of the deepest fading folks there and Cheyne’s win in 89 was pretty impressive also. Fitz and Bk …especially BK with that bottom turn seem to just dig as deep as any generation.
What I have seen in surfing since Slater is obviously extreme talent on those little boards…but it just does not inspire me the same way as some in the past. I am not given to that simply because some of it is my era either…I would love to be inspired by some of the younger pros…I am just not. I thought some of what Joel was doing a few years ago made me want to go surfing more. I see slater and go…aint no way I will even come close to any of those moves. Machado has also at times been inspiring.
Randy looking back in time to early pipe masters to the Larry Blair era. I have heard Larry’s rails were different and held in better than what the rest were riding had alot to do with his double almost triple victories at pipe. Have you seen those boards up close? My obvious interest in Mccoys is one of the reasons I ask…but I read an interview with Larry and another prominent pro of the time and it seemed to me that what Mccoy was doing on his rails and with thickness then has not changed that much in theory. The other guy in the interview thought going thinner was the answer to bigger wave and hollower wave surfing and Larry liked thicker and slightly wider for his size.
Any thoughts on that stuff from your intimate association with that part of the pipe and big Hawiian contest? From the board design perspective.
Dane Kealoha and Buttons also great single fin power surfers. Dane seemed to play with big waves. I remember seeing him at big sunset on a twin fin in some movie. Killing it.
Hey Solo,
you mention being inspired by what Joel was doing, and I’m guessing you mean Tudor, but check out Joel Fitzgerald’s surfing too. He is, in my opinion, the most underated surfer out there. The guy rides everything in a totally committed way and if you like the power surfing he’s the man to watch. Very obviously influenced by his Dad and he’s been riding some oddball (by mainstream standards) equipment lately. Definitely someone I’d like to see at a contest at Sunset or Pipe. Janklow put a link to a film called ‘Believe’ on the ‘non thruster film’ thread and the promo has a tiny segment of Fitzy Jnr (and his brother, equally good surfer by the way-genetics? Lifestyle?) thats worth a look. Mr. Rarick, glad to see you here, you’re already making me check in more regularly. I saw you in the Downing shop a few years back and you were most polite, interupted your talk with Keone to let me ask him a few no doubt stupid questions, so belated thanks!
http://www.littlehouseproductions.com.au/wmv_high.html
There ya go, dudes EDIT: they changed this trailer, dang it, now it’s mostly thrusters–wonder if the original is around anywhere.
I hope Rarick weighs in again–his last post was fn fun!
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Hey Solo,
you mention being inspired by what Joel was doing, and I’m guessing you mean Tudor, but check out Joel Fitzgerald’s surfing too. He is, in my opinion, the most underated surfer out there. The guy rides everything in a totally committed way and if you like the power surfing he’s the man to watch. Very obviously influenced by his Dad and he’s been riding some oddball (by mainstream standards) equipment lately. Definitely someone I’d like to see at a contest at Sunset or Pipe. Janklow put a link to a film called ‘Believe’ on the ‘non thruster film’ thread and the promo has a tiny segment of Fitzy Jnr (and his brother, equally good surfer by the way-genetics? Lifestyle?) thats worth a look. Mr. Rarick, glad to see you here, you’re already making me check in more regularly. I saw you in the Downing shop a few years back and you were most polite, interupted your talk with Keone to let me ask him a few no doubt stupid questions, so belated thanks!
Yes …Joel Tudor. I don’t care for his silly contrived hippy image thing, but the style of surfing at the time just looked alot like a guy with a nice style paddling out and having fun on varied equipment. I like that he chose his own path to some degree. Thats what I meant.
I also think it’s funny that Cheyne stayed single longer than most at a high level and Joel, Machado, Curren and now Fitz’s kid are being looked at a the new single fin pioneers. Cheyne still loves single as something unchanged where many are looking for the image thing. As we have discussed…you know how it goes. I have seen the Fitz clips…some good surfing going on. Your right J.F. is a good an underrated surfer.
9/3/07
To all on this thread, some intersting input and questions!
GlenShotwell had mentioned the surfing of Mark Richards at Honolua. I was actually at that session and in fact wrote a story for SURFING Mag about it. Some great footage in “Free Ride” and also some good pics in the mag by Dan Merkel. The upshot of that is sort of backing up the fact that the type of board being ridden (Reno Abellira shaped wing-pin, with the wide point forward, lot of bulk, straight rocker, long drawn out tail, spiral “V”) works really good for big face, type of waves where down the line surfing is needed. Much the same as what I was refering too, as the Sunset type boards. (In fact MR used this same board to compete at Sunset on).
For those lucky enough to be in Honolulu in July for the surf auction that I put on, we had a special display called “Sunset '79”. It was the brain child of Tom Robinson and funded by Deane Chunn and I helped to facilitate it by getting a bunch of shapers who were on their game back in the late 70’s to shape:“as best you can remember, what was the type of shape you made at the height of the single fin era, with the idea of an 8’ Sunset gun”. We gave everyone the exact same blank and same rocker and told them to try to replicate as best they could what they were shaping the winter of '79. It was really a fun project and we had: Brewer, Parrish, Lopez, Eaton, Linden, Minami, Myself, Barnfield(who’s board has been posted on this site), Bradshaw, Aipa and BK. An article about the project will be coming out in the mags in a couple months, so keep an eye out for that to see the rest of the boards.
I laid out my thoughts on the aspect of what I considered more pleasing to watch, the surfing that went on in the 70’s/80’s at Sunset vs what is going on now. When you consider the type of equipment that was being used then vs what guys are riding now, I just personally felt the surfing then was better to watch in relative terms. By all means, the likes of Jake Patterson, Parko, Andy Irons, Slater are all riping at Sunset today. But the three fin thruster, and the type of surfing it presents is different from the approach a single fin 70’s shape made you take. “Contemporary” surfing is always changing. Whether it is because of equipment changes or generational changes. The young, hot up-and-coming groms, generally don’t want to be like the “old guys”, and are constantly re-defing what is contemporary surfing. Which is not to say what they are replacing is “bad”, it’s just that each new generation wants to be “different”. Joel Tudor’s name came up and I personally think he is one of the 10 best surfers of all time. He took what was considered 60’s classic/retro style and adopted it and then updated it to modern contemporary longboarding. Then net result? Without a doubt, one of the most pleasing surfers to watch. That is partially why all this “new” facination with all the “retro” boards (fishes, bonzers, even 70’s inspired single fins), because luckily, enough guys are breaking away from the accepted norm and trying new stuff. Joel Fitzgerald, was also mentioned and he is one of those guys not affraid to go back and try old designs and try extract what were the good points about them. David Rastovich is another, who has shuned the accepted and in turn tried a wide variety of shapes. Sometimes guys take it too far and try to be too far out or different (that is why Cheyne Horan never won a world title, as he stubbornly stuck with his desire to ride equipment different from the mainstream) and in the end, some sense of moderation always wins out. Another one was Larry Blair and I think Solo asked about when he won his two Pipe Masters titles. Both years he won, the surf was in the 5-7’ range and Larry’s strategy was to wait for the biggest waves, rather than just go for tubes. His boards were a bit thicker and bulkier and allowed him more paddle power, which worked well with his strategy. I remember the second year he won, he actually tied with Dane Kealoha, and they went to the sixth wave on a count-back and that wave was the biggest Larry had got, so his strategy paid off. By the way, Larry Blair was on his way to winning a third Pipe Masters when the local finalists ganged up on him and blocked him from getting a good third wave (no way did they want him winning a third title) and he subsequently settled for two. That second title featured besides Dane, Shaun Tomson, Larry Bertlemann, MR and a very young Tom Carroll and they all rode relatevely short single fins.
I suppose all of this leads to the fact that we all like different aspects of surfing. I think the majority of surfers appreaciate “style” and “power surfing” is probably also appreciated by a good many who observe. I certainly like both of those attributes, especially in context of watching big wave riding at some place like Sunset. But, I also appreciate the current trend of what is “contemporary” surfing with all the airreals and tight in-the-pocket approach. As long as it’s good to watch, it’s still really good!
Aloha,
Randy Rarick
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Joel Tudor’s name came up and I personally think he is one of the 10 best surfers of all time. He took what was considered 60’s classic/retro style and adopted it and then updated it to modern contemporary longboarding. Then net result? Without a doubt, one of the most pleasing surfers to watch. That is partially why all this “new” facination with all the “retro” boards (fishes, bonzers, even 70’s inspired single fins), because luckily, enough guys are breaking away from the accepted norm and trying new stuff.
Aloha,
Randy Rarick
Also…the hippy thing I mentioned was simply the marketing point that was put on him by his sponsors. No doubt the guy loves him some seventies though. I can’t help hearing Hendrix playing when I watch him surf.
Joel is a nice person, a creative person, and I agree one of the best with the smoothest style. I doubt he will get the credit he deserves for helping to bring back fun surfing for the average guy. I booked him for an event one time and when he couldn’t make it, he returned the money no questions asked with plenty of notice. I like his mom also. I have always thought alot of him for being straight up about it. For those of you in the industry…you know this is not the norm. I liked that contest he surfed in Fiji or somewhere were he took out a 7’4’’ single fin and got third or something. Classic.
Alot of surfing is between your ears anyway.
. Early in the 70’s guys like B.K., Hakman, Fitz, were fading deeper and laying their boards over on a rail and POWER surfing a lot harder. They were backed up by the likes of Bobby Owens, Butch Perreira and Gary Elkerton in the later 70’s and early 80’s. but back at Sunset, I just don’t see the power commitment.
Never a truer word was spoken…my blood stirred when I read this …for so long Sunset Beach has been the Cinderella of the surfing world.
An Australian Perspective
I arrived on the NS for my first season Halloween 92. it was Kelly Slater’s rookie year and his first world title. The tour climaxed at the Pipeline where Slater was handed victory after Sunny Garcia was medivaced off the beach due to a horrendous wipeout. Sunset Beach did not host a WCT event…to the best of my memory the last one was 1990 , won by Nicky Wood, after a stunning victory by Cheyne the year before.
The loss of Sunset beach as a WCT venue was integral to Slater’s tour dominance. The momentum generation, through radical reductions in board volume and increased rocker, changed the focus of surfing from power to tricks and slide in the lip. These boards, this generation,was never able to adapt their approach to Sunset, which required a completely different mindset and design approach.The removal of Sunset beach cleared the only obstacle to Slater’s regime change in the ASP. Slater’s weakness has always been Sunset Beach and it is possible to imagine a very different scenario if that venue was retained as a WCT site. For instance Shane Herring.
Herring was the heir apparent to the Aussie power approach: his lineage and technique a direct step on the evolutionary line from MP via “Mumbles” Lewis and Joe Engel. Herro had something Slater never had : a low centre of gravity devastatingly powerful full rail carving forehand snap. See exhibit A frame grab from near Lennox head 1998.
Herring would’ve destroyed Slater at Sunset beach with this one turn , given boards of appropriate volume and rocker.
History will show that Slater went on to world dominance while Herring walks the streets of Byron Bay as a drunk with the music still in him.
In the seasons that followed, with Sunset off the tour and the chronicling of the momentum crew by cheap mini-DV cameras with inadequate lenses, the wave at Sunset lost it’s prestige as a historical proving ground for international surfers. It was surfed and surfed well but as Owl pointed out repeatedly: “all the cameras are down at the shorebreak filming the kids on toothpicks”. Guys who I saw surf the place with mastery were Darrick Doerner, Bill Sickler, Owl Chapman, Cheyne Horan, and especially Garret Macnamara. Richard Schmidt was riding tiny boards out there.
As far as the young Aussies went, or the momentum crew, Sunset Beach might as well have been on another planet. thin seven footers or even seven sixes just didn’t have the horsepower and rail length to make an impact at Sunset. Their surfing looked weak and inconsequential to me.
It’s funny the way loose historical threads get tied into a meangiful narrative. The frame grabs of Herro are of a brief period when he was riding McCoy’s. His surfing at that time (off the tour) was so smooth, powerful and based off a totally committed bottom turn it could only be compared to Barry Kanaiupuni. One of Geoff’s most revered influences as a surfer/shaper is , you guessed it, BK. Tragically Herro imploded during this time into a nightmare of mental illness and alcoholism. My guess is he will be lucky to make 40.
On Joel Fitz
New Years Day 1996 I was passed out drunk on the beach at Backyards in front of the vacant lot where they used to stash their sailboards. Joel gave me a kick in the guts as he walked past " get up , surf’s pumping, let’s go surf Sunset".
I wasn’t capable of wiping my own arse after a savage night of drinking and pakalolo smoking culminating in me driving off my face to a party at the kuilima. Fuck knows how I got back to the beach at Backyards.
Sunset was a stormy 12-15 foot with very few takers that morning . I stumbled around to the bike path between Sunset and Kammieland and sat there with Owl watching Joel Fitz do an absolute number on Sunset Beach. He was riding one of Owl’s boards, an 8’5", and Owl was in ecstacy. Fitzy came round from deep behind the peak time and time again, power carving in the hook , each turn critical and committed. It was a dionysian display that roared with the blood of TF and the aussie tradition of power surfing in Hawaii. It was a privilege to witness. Joel was another who suffered from the loss of Sunset as venue.
Long live Sunset Beach.
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Wow. Great one, L76. The singles make for a rail-surfer, hm?
Those shots of Herro he has a thruster. The last grab is of Cheyne with a gull-wing single. Joel Fitz was riding a thruster. I think volume and rocker are more important but the most important factor is intent.
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Those shots of Herro he has a thruster. The last grab is of Cheyne with a gull-wing single. Joel Fitz was riding a thruster. I think volume and rocker are more important but the most important factor is intent.
Look at that bottom turn. You don’t see Machado doing one of those on his single. Not that he does not rip…but daome.
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SNIP
They were backed up by the likes of Bobby Owens, Butch Perreira and Gary Elkerton in the later 70’s and early 80’s.
SNIP
Randy
Aloha Guys
Thought you might like to see one of Bobby’s boards from that era Randy was talking about above. Bobby’s dad stopped by to see me a few days ago, so I popped over to Patagonia and snagged Bobby and then dug out one of his old boards and threw this photo together.
Randy, I agree with you totally. The surfing at Sunset in the late 70s was awesome! The power in the surfing was exceptional and little energy was wasted on needless flicky moves. It was all about the power and the boards were built to harness it. Both Bobby and Butch Perreira, were among my Team Riders during that time and what really set them apart and also prevented them from achieving greater accolades was their incredibly smooth styles under pressure. Their mastery of Sunset was and still is, unsurpassed when classic Hawaiian style is taken into consideration. The downside of being so smooth in the face of danger, as you know Randy, is that it never registers well on the score cards. Thanks a lot for mentioning them.
And compliments to your smooth handling of the misguided criticisms you have received from some here on Swaylocks.
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Quote:SNIP
They were backed up by the likes of Bobby Owens, Butch Perreira and Gary Elkerton in the later 70’s and early 80’s.
SNIP
Randy
Aloha Guys
Thought you might like to see one of Bobby’s boards from that era Randy was talking about above. Bobby’s dad stopped by to see me a few days ago, so I popped over to Patagonia and snagged Bobby and then dug out one of his old boards and threw this photo together.
Randy, I agree with you totally. The surfing at Sunset in the late 70s was awesome! The power in the surfing was exceptional and little energy was wasted on needless flicky moves. It was all about the power and the boards were built to harness it. Both Bobby and Butch Perreira, were among my Team Riders during that time and what really set them apart and also prevented them from achieving greater accolades was their incredibly smooth styles under pressure. Their mastery of Sunset was and still is, unsurpassed when classic Hawaiian style is taken into consideration. The downside of being so smooth in the face of danger, as you know Randy, is that it never registers well on the score cards. Thanks a lot for mentioning them.
And compliments to your smooth handling of the misguided criticisms you have received from some here on Swaylocks.
So true. Bobby was another really underrated surfer. There are so many. You never hear about Dane much, but that guy ripped also.
Just for the record: I have not been critical at all of Randy on this and my criticism of institutions is not vitrol against SHF but my opinion of most institutions in general. I didn’t think you were directing it at me Bill, but I wanted to clarify. The way Bill ( I like most of his post BTW and have no real issue with this one) posted this thread was to some insinuating folks here should send money to SHF and that Randy was a good person for doing so. Not everyone feels the same about that type of thing and some feel poked. It’s not negative for them saying their bit about it anymore than Bill posting the thread for comments.
To put it into perspective: If you attend the Surfing Heritage Foundation’s surfboard collection and feel moved to give them money then you should by all means do so. Asking someone for money with the premise that we are preserving surfing’s Heritage without even seeing the thing or because Randy put up $10,000 for many seems to be pushing it a bit. I for one don’t think thats what Bill was doing. I think he just loves old surfboards like Randy. Heck…I like old surfboards and respect the parts they played in our sport. I just don’t see them or the business side of our industry as something important to the world. Only something that gives a few collectors and a few of us surfers pleasure. Kind of like a 69 Cobra Jet still gives some pleasure over a 2008 Mustang.
Also…Lennox made a very good point to the post IMO when he said he was working on something to filter drinking water in Africa. I believe that puts surfing in it’s proper perspective as a passtime and not something of world importance. I would be more impressed to see money given in that direction in the name of individual surfers rather than something that is likely in the long run (good intentions aside) to be selective in it’s heritage. I must say though…I have heard nothing but positive about SHF and those that began it…so…it is off to a good start. Just my .02.
We should start another thread for the surfboard discussion so it can get fully explored and not hijack this one and mix the two issues. Just a suggestion.
RR showed his true colors as the title says. Deviations off topic, as a couple paragraphs below sound hypocritical and a bit guilt ridden. We all know this niche on surfboards isn’t as important as saving humans from genocide and starvation. The topic had been nicely back on track with our own, selfishly stated elders contributing freely. I’d hate to see such insight swept away.
I for one never saw Owens or Kealoha as underrated in the slightest. They personified what I see as beautiful surfing.
There sure is a lot of information in that picture Bill! Thanks!!
Randy,
Don’t stop the stories! Keep it comin’! And BillT and BillB and the rest of yaz, you guys undoubtedly have great stories to tell!!
You are talking about a time many of us feel “we really missed it, we should have been there yesterday”…
stylemasters… wow… you guys were there…
Got any pictures from those days???
Stoked!
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I for one never saw Owens or Keaoha as underrated in the slightest. They personified what I see as beautiful surfing.
There sure is a lot of information in that picture Bill! Thanks!!
Some today still get credit because they are tied in with big clothing companies. Dane is also…but you rarely see much mentioned of him. I think next to Cheyne…he may have been the best surfer of the late seventies and early eighties. At least with power and speed. His twin fin footage in big ass Hawiian surf is still mind blowing.