I have a fish that Steve Clark shaped. He did a perfect job. I bought the blank (6,2c) and now that I know more about fish, I think the 6,2c has way too much rocker. So I’m thinking of getting another 6,2c and dropping the rocker from 5,5 to about 3 inches.
Also, I’m also thinking that a fish is supposed to be dead flat on the deck. Am I right about that?
Also, is it just me, or do the Hynsons and Kane Gardens have too much rocker for real fish?
I took a Kane Garden off the rack the other day and set it upside down on the floor. Seemed to have a lot of deck rocker. The Hynsons seemed to have more.
No offense to those guys. They’re great, but are these retro fish a little less retro than I thought?
What are your opinions on deck rocker AND bottom rocker for a fish.
Also, what about fin placement and bottom contours.
I kind of like a little more rocker in the modern interpretation of the retro fish. That along with the single foiled fin toed in just a little seems to have made a board that can handle a broader variety of waves.
I think its great that these shapers have taken a retro outline but incorperated some modern elements such as fin placement, rail shape and overall foil of the board. There has been a lot learned in the thirty years since the origional fish that can help it be more than it was back then. Even Skip Frye’s boards are different now, subtle changes but still changes.
I agree that the 6’2"C looks like it has too much rocker, but I have seen some fishes here that look like they were shaped using that blank and they looked ok. I think Clark has a reduced rocker 6’2"C available or you could probably order one with a custom rocker, or use the longer fish blank to shape a shorter one. I would think though that
2 1/2" of nose rocker would be a bit too flat a rocker to be functional. I had a really flat rockered Aipa fish in the early 70’s and although it was great in really small waves, once it got over shoulder high, I had trouble with steep drops.
What you might want to consider in making a traditional fish is to keep your options open. Stick with the basic design concept of wide nose, wide tail, deep wide swallow and keel fins. But knowing what we do today, you could tweak it a little by toeing and canting in the fins slightly,use a removable fin system, add a double concave, etc. to enhance and hopefully improve on the original design. I tweaked the traditional fish I just did and I’m crossing my fingers that it works.
Take a look at the 6’8"P blank, great blank for old style fish. Someone posted here recently about a new 6’5"P blank, anybody heard about it or or seen one?
What do you want? A plain answer? Shaping boards is a very tough territory. There are so many variables, and in addition, there’s no right answers. Talking about fishies is still more complicated because they accept as much interpretations as the number of shapers are out there around the world. Like in literature, there is only one way to analyze a work, but it is possible to do many interpretations. What is to much rocker for you can be little for another person. Believe or not, try to use your fellings and your insights to find the answers you are looking for.
I don’t really understand what you mean by deck rocker. I’ve heard that term before, but am not sure what it means. If you mean nose to tail then I understand. If you mean rail to rail concave, well, I’ve never seen such a thing.
I’m going to have a 6,8p ordered, flatten the rocker to three inches in the nose and one inch in the tail. I want it flat. I’m going to have a 6,6 fish made.
With a lot of luck I might convince Steve Clark to shape it. Man, that guy can shape!
I’m also thinking of begging Jim Phillips to make me another board. The 8,2 he made for me is unreal.
Concaves is something rarely seen, but seen anyways, by most peeps who make boards or are involved in board design. Yes, thinner stringer than 4" inboard of the rails.
JeffdaShaper hit it on the head, T+E=M use it as a waterman, how the water will flow over rails and thru fins for the magic, I’ve used 6.2c most of the time when you can get them, and have use a 6.9a I think wide thick second, cut out bad and end up with alot less rocker but some like it, just cut the templete to the rear as possible to elimate the nose rocker, esier done w/a say 5.8 to 5.10 fish on a 6.2c blank.
The 6.9a one looked flatter cause no deck rocker near nose area and like an OS (old school) one don’t like retro,
All others are right, go with the cant. toe in, concaves, it all works for the magic you seek. As long as you know how to ride a fish correctly, I see guys in the water that don’t have a clue.
As far as knowing how to ride a fish, I had to figure it out for myself. And the conclusion I came to was to noseride, like a longboard. It really is a front foot driven act, and you have to be willing to forget about your back foot. You can actually turn with your front foot.
I love riding my fish.
The best part, for me, is the off-the-lips and floaters, because with all that nose I come down a lot softer than if I’m on a typical highperformance thruster.
I’m also, like many guys, thinking of getting removable fins for my next fish. but they have to be keels.
But next time the fins go parallel and ninety degrees. No compromise on that.
I’m not sure what “riding a fish correctly” means,but a fish is an easy board to ride compared to other short boards. Paddle pretty good, gets up and planes quickly, nice wide stable platform to stand on, fast and drivey. Mike
Fairmount. I have a 5’11" traditional style fish with a rolled deck, slight vee bottom. The rocker is approximately 2-5/8" nose and 1" tail .
I personally would not want anything flatter… I shape and live in Vista you are welcome to ride that board or any others.
I have a old beat up 70’s Fish 5’5" fish (shaper unknown) the bottom rocker on that is approximately 4" nose, 1" tail. almost flat deck and flat bottom contour.
I only know that my thick [3" !] 1970s “fish” catches the front left nose edge during [forehand] cutbacks [rights] , has trouble with late drops , and doesn’t fit in the pocket quite as well as the 5’11x 20 x 2 1/2 with thinner rails and more rocker [and fin system options] that I made myself three years ago now. [they both have similar nose , tail and tip to tip dimensions , but the 1970s one , besides being thicker with more rounded rails , is also longer …it’s 6’1" [?!]
I will at some stage this year , out at Grant’s garage, be embarking on stripping a 1970s kneeboard [with more nose rocker than my 5’11] , so when that’s reshaped as a 5’8 x 20- 21" x 2 3/8 fish , I will have THREE different fishes to compare again .
Mike [‘rooster’] …
you have a whole QUIVER of fishes , don’t you ?
I’d be very interested to hear YOUR findings on which rockers work best for you in your everyday surfing , and in what size / kind of waves that would mainly be ? [most of my “fish” riding [here in perth, west oz ] is done in shifty , occassionally hollow beachbreaks …
I don’t measure rocker. I eyeball it. I put 95 percent of the foil into the blank before I template it. But, they don’t have much. I can measure if interested. Pretty flat on the deck, too. Even so, it would be hard to attribute how they ride to rocker because of all the other variables. The best description I’ve heard of how a fish rides is,“like surfing on a wet bar of soap.” Some feel like that and others don’t. I get rid of the ones that don’t. I’m a hobby hacker and I build them for me to ride at my current age and ability. I will say the one board that turned out the best asthetically(low hard rails, rocker, flat bottom, clean lam.) is my least favorite to ride. Surfboards are wierd. It’s all so subjective that I really don’t know how to answer. It’s a feeling. My all time magic board was a board rejected by Harbor Bill. My advice to Fairmont is to start building your own and discover what the best rocker numbers are for YOU.
I’ve been riding my fishes almost exclusivey for just over a year. I surf mostly fast hollow beach break from knee high to a few feet overhead. When it gets to about 10 foot faces it heaves pretty hard and I sometimes wish I had a thruster. I enjoy the fishes so much though that I’m always looking for waves for my fishes. I have a 6’6" for when it gets a bit bigger. Fishes are great short boards for middle aged surfers. Plus, they just look so strange. I’m amazed at how well they work and I don’t think of them as a “retro board” but a design that has always worked and still does. My current favorites are a 5’10", 6’4" ugly green fish, and my 6’6" Garibaldi. Mike
Well, not quite. There’s lil old guys, big old guys. Young guys. Clumsy guys.Plodder type guys. Once in a while can still do it guys. Talented guys. Small wave guys. Big wave guys. Anything guys. Gettin fat and slow guys. Too many injury guys. Burger (not Bert) guys. Tow in guys. Stoked guys. Bitter guys. Good old days guys. Used to guys. And a lot more. They can all ride a fish. It’s all fun. Mike
