what do you think of randy french?

General Discussion
21

this is not a religeous post, I just would like to mention that surftechs are sandwich boards and quite different from an epoxy monolithic layup, in case any of you are putting all epoxy boards in the same category. The monolithic epoxy layup whether it be done stringerless with extra glass or regular amount of glass with a stringer rides similar to a conventional polyester/pu board. A sandwich board seems to have a feel of its own.

Whether a person prefers the feel of a sandwich or monolithic board is a personal preference. I have spoken to one experienced longboard who found the stiffness of the sandwich quite disconcerting, whereas another experienced longboarder I know who surfs the same surf spot prefers the sandwich board. Personally I like the ride from the sandwich boards best. But i would still say the shape is the most important thing

22

Bert, you are full of it. Epoxies are NOT superior. They are lighter, sometimes, but they are made from the EXACT same thing as a two dollar foam beer cooler that you pick up at Sav-On Drugs. And then they wrap it in some crappy particle board, followed by a wrap of plastic, all done by someone in Thailand who says, “Boss, what the hell is this thing?”

I have many boards (too many if you ask some people I know) and they are all Poly, that world war two material you talk about. You know what else they used in World War Two? Steel. That stuff is outdated technology. They need to stop using it. Instead of making things out of steel, they should be using plastic. For example, plastic door handles on cars are better than steel. They are lighter, right? Steel lasts too long, darn it. They should especially make more moving parts out of plastic instead of steel.

Another World War Two material is wood. In fact, that material goes back even farther than WW II. They need to stop using that stuff too. I can’t believe all the crap they build using that outdated junk. My kitchen cabinets are wood, and to make matter worse, solid wood! I would much rather have some kind of styrofoam wrapped in plastic. It would insulate better and would be lighter.

Polyurethane foam IS the BEST we have right now. The only pro shortboarder who competes on the WCT with an epoxy board is Keiren Perrow, and Australian. I love Australians, and their country, and Perrow is a great surfer, but just think how much better he would be on a real board.

The kids in Santa Cruz need to get jobs if they are so broke that they can’t afford a board. If they want it strong, glass it heavier. It doesn’t add that much weight. I think what buckles it is the constant hopping they do when they hit a flat spot in the wave. If they had any real talent they would stop all that hopping. Or, they should ride a shape that gets them over the flat spot.

Finally, about wetsuits. I use a wetsuit that is super inexpensive and very warm. I buy the same one at Longboard Grotto every year, and once in a while I can get two years out of it. It’s made right here in the USA, one county north, in fact. It is an ALEEDA. All American, baby!

But my biggest question is: Who buys these Surftechs? I rarely see them, and of the few I have seen, they were definitely ridden by beginners.

Oh, and as far as longboarding is concerned, everyone who is experienced in longboarding knows that more weight means more momentum and smoother ride, which also means catching waves earlier. Surftechs don’t catch waves easier. The opposite is true, at least that’s what I see.

Plus, real surfboards look better. You can see the stringer, the glass (volan) ad the foam. It’s beautiful. The finish on a Surftech looks like a plastic cup from Chuck E. Cheese (where a kid can be a kid).

If you EVER catch me carrying a Surftech (unless it’s to a dumpster) then I will buy you a case of any beer you want (and lunch).

23

some day we will all die and laugh about the disconcertng controversy about dissimilar materials during the winding down of the use of petrochemical by products…the future vehicular wave riding modules will be egoless matte finished woven metalic suspension bubbles capable of going from soft to hard and flexible to rigid in a thoughtform moment and when they rupture the contained methane will smell just like last nights frijoles , in english speaking countries they will still be called beans…served as little donkeys… ambrose…this heated plastics dis pute sounds so flegmilular and it still tastes a little salty it will feel good to spit it out at the beach for the oysters to eat while we all go surfing and watch each other go over the falls trying to keep a straight face like we meant to go over the falls on purpose

24

Fairmont,

Your a beauty! I’ll buy you a case of beer and lunch anytime. Funny! Mike

25

solosurfer im gonna agree with you there on a few points …like i said “i dont agree with everything surftech”

they still need way more work on there shapes ,coz there copying standard poly plugs ,you cant change materials without a performance difference …

my basic point is the materials are superior and will give a stronger lighter board …a bad shape is still a bad shape epoxy or poly…

randy has done a good thing in exposing the market place to superior construction …of coarse people will want custom epoxies…

there stoked with durability and weight but not the shape…surely thats not to hard to understand…

as far as fairmont is concerned …

i actually feel pity for the people you have to associate with everyday…

from your approach and the ammount of misinformation you posted ,its obvious your the type of person who cant be reasoned with…so i wont even try…

regards

BERT

26

what about flex? surftech boards have a really bad flex pattern,

you can make an epoxy board with flex but those one have been built the wrong way…

you can take a clark blank with no stringer and do a normal 2x4oz 1x4oz with epoxy, the board will be stronger and flexible.

Randy French is just trying to cut the corners…

patagonia had a great idea, clyde beatty, epoxy pro, all those guys are doing the “soul work”, Randy french… no way.

i think all the great shaper that are doing business with him have just became leasy and are happy with RF big cheques…

epoxy is great! surftech is not.

27

Bert,

I have absolutly nothing at all against you personally or Randy French. In Fact I appreciate that you have articualated your own opinion. I don’t disagree with you totally on some of the points of your last post and I was simply being a little saracastic on the throw up remark. Swaylocks is for an exchange of ideas. Not all of them are going to be the same.

My main problem with Surftechs, chinese Boards, and so called Surf clothing companies and products is the simple fact that the vast majority of it is sold by hype, half truths, and downright lies. Surfing magazines will print anything they are told to print by those who pay most of their bills. At very best they will not call a product that is crap, “crap” and at worst they will call the product superior, new, improved, or get some pro surfers (most of which know no more than any other surfer about how their boards are made and why) to write in about what they thought about the ride, quality, and where it fits into the industry. Surfing’s so called history is simply what some magazine editor decides it is. He can leave out or take shots at any surfer or board builder who has not played by his rules or kissed his ass properly. Look back at the surfer mag. issue that named the most powerful men in surfing. What a joke and bunch of tripe. They simply picked from their list of advertisers and called it truth. People believe anything they see in print.

28

…if surftech were made in USA and the bigger CLARK foam in thailand or somewhere, most of us now talking about the stupidity of build boards with C F…

29

surftechs would be WAY expensive made in the USA. No one would buy them. They’d only cost slightly less than a custom epoxy sandwich board, and those are pretty much out of the market too.

Epoxy is better than polyester resin in almost every way except price.

the biggest issue people have with Randy French is that he uses skilled labor in Thailand instead of the US. I wouldn’t pity the Thai workers - I’d bet they get a really good deal from their point of view. Have pity on the US workers that will only do the same job for 10 times the cost.

Maybe, as Bert suggests, the market for custom sandwich boards will grow. That’d be pretty cool, and keep a lot of work here. You’d have to think long and hard about spending 2-3 hundred bucks more for a custom. Now, customs are usually cheaper than brand-name (ie: merrick or rusty) boards. But I have friends that do custom sandwich boards here, and they are not full-up on business. People are still asking for cheaper customs, and don’t care if it means non-sandwich boards.

30

Fairmont- thought I’d respond to your insightful post.

[Bert, you are full of it. Epoxies are NOT superior. They are lighter, sometimes, but they are made from the EXACT same thing as a two dollar foam beer cooler that you pick up at Sav-On Drugs. And then they wrap it in some crappy particle board, followed by a wrap of plastic, all done by someone in Thailand who says, “Boss, what the hell is this thing?”]

No not particle board- High density foam. The “plastic” that they “wrap” around the board is Epoxy… seemingly the resin of choice on this forum.

[I have many boards (too many if you ask some people I know) and they are all Poly, that world war two material you talk about. You know what else they used in World War Two? Steel. That stuff is outdated technology. They need to stop using it. Instead of making things out of steel, they should be using plastic. For example, plastic door handles on cars are better than steel. They are lighter, right? Steel lasts too long, darn it. They should especially make more moving parts out of plastic instead of steel.]

That was then… this is now, I wonder what kinds of interesting composites the military is using today? I also prefere my board not to ride like a tank. So steel is not an option… plus we’re not talking about tanks here. They weigh a little too much…

[Another World War Two material is wood. In fact, that material goes back even farther than WW II. They need to stop using that stuff too. I can’t believe all the crap they build using that outdated junk. My kitchen cabinets are wood, and to make matter worse, solid wood! I would much rather have some kind of styrofoam wrapped in plastic. It would insulate better and would be lighter.]

Yeah, wood is great, its really pretty. But once again we are not talking about cabinets here. Besides wasn’t wood phased out by more advanced materials years ago? I like my surfboards LIGHT.

[Polyurethane foam IS the BEST we have right now. The only pro shortboarder who competes on the WCT with an epoxy board is Keiren Perrow, and Australian. I love Australians, and their country, and Perrow is a great surfer, but just think how much better he would be on a real board.]

Oh no! Poor Keiren is standing out in the crowd!! Someone mail this bloke a real board!!! One made of steel and wood! So what if he is the only person not riding what everybody else is riding? Maybe his idea of a “real” surfboard differs from yours?

[The kids in Santa Cruz need to get jobs if they are so broke that they can’t afford a board. If they want it strong, glass it heavier. It doesn’t add that much weight. I think what buckles it is the constant hopping they do when they hit a flat spot in the wave. If they had any real talent they would stop all that hopping. Or, they should ride a shape that gets them over the flat spot.]

Wow. You are a genius. Just add a little weight huh? Thats a great idea! Maybe add a little steel? I’m sure the weight would be just fine. Duh! Just because the kids of today surf differntly that you did back in the good old days, dosn’t mean that you can pass judgement. I don’t sit here and whine about the way you surf.

[Finally, about wetsuits. I use a wetsuit that is super inexpensive and very warm. I buy the same one at Longboard Grotto every year, and once in a while I can get two years out of it. It’s made right here in the USA, one county north, in fact. It is an ALEEDA. All American, baby! ]

Where is your computer made? I sure as hope that you are driving an american made car too. To top it off you probably vote for Bush also. Great.

[But my biggest question is: Who buys these Surftechs? I rarely see them, and of the few I have seen, they were definitely ridden by beginners.]

Maybe you have your eyes closed most of the time when you are surfing? Wait… are you one of those guys that sit at the top of the peak on your 80 lb board and run over everybody when a set wave comes?

[Oh, and as far as longboarding is concerned, everyone who is experienced in longboarding knows that more weight means more momentum and smoother ride, which also means catching waves earlier. Surftechs don’t catch waves easier. The opposite is true, at least that’s what I see.]

Huh? Sure if you are talking about 60’s era noseriders. It seems to me that most of the pros riding for the shop that I work at like their HP’s to be around 10-11 lbs. Wake up… longboarding has changed alot since the wonderful 60’s.

[Plus, real surfboards look better. You can see the stringer, the glass (volan) ad the foam. It’s beautiful. The finish on a Surftech looks like a plastic cup from Chuck E. Cheese (where a kid can be a kid). ]

Thats just your opinion.

[If you EVER catch me carrying a Surftech (unless it’s to a dumpster) then I will buy you a case of any beer you want (and lunch).]

Ditto… but not for the reasons that you list. -Carl

31

Some thoughts I’d like to share:

  1. Regardless of who makes these surftechs (i.e. a machine overseas that is run by someone who don’t surf), regardless of whether or not Randy French is a sell-out, the bottom line is that IF these boards are more durable, that means less waste and pollution, which IS a good thing. It seems that the majority of posts on this thread have ignored the environmental issues and have instead focused on ethics. Yes, Surftechs break, and they ding, but if they don’t delam like PU boards and if they last longer, then, from an environmental perspective, they are doing all of us a service.

  2. If you don’t agree with surftech for one reason or another, boycott those boards, simple as that. Any competent shaper should know that there will ALWAYS be a demand for custom shapes.

  3. Go surfing and smile. If someone chooses to ride a surftech, so be it. I ain’t gonna let it ruin my day. If French wants to bastardize surfing, so be it. He isn’t the first one. At least he is selling boards. Would someone please tell me what (insert company name here) shirts/shorts/trucker hats/wallets/key chains/ etc. have to do with riding waves? We can’t control what others do, though we can promote aloha ourselves by being nice to people in the water.

Have fun.

32

Thankyou Bert for being the voice of reason once again. Thankyou Carl for making me laugh loud enough for my wife to hear through two walls. I think the people who get festered about any newish construction methods must have low self esteem. Ever notice how most surfers who try to look like a grumpy local are the one’s who just can’t surf very well? That being said, I think Randy French is a class act and has helped ignite a much needed fire in the surfboard mfg. industry. Wisemen like Bert have been on it for years, and may soon be getting deserved respect due to a new acceptance of progressive materials. Any shapers who want to compete in the future should at least try using a form of sandwich construction. Like Bert said, Clark Foam has been kicking out years of anti-epoxy/styrene foam propaganda, since about 1982. All you shapers have surely gotten the same letters from Clark that I have. Randy French doesn’t send out anti-Clark mailings. Randy also have never made any false claims as a few grumpy people have implied on this thread. Just to correct some common misconceptions about Surftech; 1. They are only as “Molded” as a Clark Blank is molded. They are then basically shaped and glassed twice by hand. Boardworks, NSP, and Bic are molded. 2. The word “Popout” should be replaced by the word “Popular” since Surftechs take at least twice the labor of a conventional PU/poly board thus eliminating them from “Popout” definition. Alot of people are buying them, the most sales in the history of surfing, thus the Cobra factory must handcraft a large number. Does extreme popularity equal “Popout”? 3. The craftspeople at Cobra are paid almost twice the average Thai industrial wage, making the job highly coveted. How many U.S. surf craftsmen make twice the U.S. industrial wage? 4. The retail price is higher than old-fashioned PU boards which can only help raise all surfboard prices in the future. 5. Surftechs are only too stiff if you’re dumb enough to buy one that’s too thick. You only have a few hundred models to choose from. 6. If you like to whine about Surftechs being too light, try a woody, they’re about normal weight. Or stick some wax pucks on the nose. Randy French is a swell fellow who has done a swell job. Some pretty reputable signature shapers seem to think so. Now it’s time to see people like Bert Burger take it one step beyond with flex and even more durability than the surf world has seen yet…By the way , I had a killer session today on a bright orange vinyl 6’4" Liquid Shredder! No fiberglass in it, just HD styrene foam, wood, and orange vinyl shrink wrapped! How come no one’s harping on Liquid Shredder? Their website says over 70,000 sold! Love Always, Delbert de von Pumpernickel

33

It’s all part of the process of change. The success and longevity of any maufacturing process is governed by its quality and demand. The foams, resins and fabrics are all out there, and many people have unique ways of puting them all together successfully.

It seems to me the people worried here are the ones who have little knowledge of new technologies, or find it hard to accept that there are new and better products available. People on their game do not feel threatened by mass production, actually they feed on the stuff.

As for the pollution factor, I’m all for minimising everything, keep waste to a minimum. But surfers should never claim to be green. We should all know the amount of chemical shit that goes into the atmosphere during the manufacturing of materials and making of a board.

The beautifully crafted stick you carry into the waves did not fall out of the trees. And if it’s a wooden board, then the tree has already fallen.

Free yourself, open your mind. Catch another wave.

34

You’re statement is correct Wildy. But here’s the good news for the environment. New materials and blowing agents are just on the cusp for the surf industry. Air is the most environmental core and engineered thermoplastics such as Nylon 11 can be made from beans instead of petro. Epoxy and polyester can be phased out for tougher, safer, smarter materials. Now how do I get the poster off the deck of my Liquid Shredder? I had to wax right over it and small chunks of poster fall off each surf session exposing slick orange vinyl. Liquid Shredder is a 99% recycleable surfboard already on the market for kids and beginners. They totally rip if you get the pro fin upgrade. I’ve been doing successfull boardslides and dissasters on logs floating through the lineup this winter. No dings yet! Run 100% biodiesel B-100 in your truck. Go vegetable products! Oh yeah…keep the new models coming Randy French…at least they are stronger and lighter and in my eyes, very beautiful. Love Delbert Pumpernickel

35

http://www.softsurfboards.com/LSBoards.htm#stringer

http://www.softsurfboards.com/64specs.htm

“Liquid Shredder ® is made in Peru “Where Surfing Was Invented” by Surfers for Surfers . Peru has some of the best surf and surfers in the world. The Beach Boys even mention Peru in their song “Surfin’ Safari”. That’s why every Liquid Shredder ® model is designed, developed and tested on the Coast of Peru in some of the best and largest surf in the World. Join the Shredder ® team and start Shreddin’.”

36

Oh Dale - How dare you cloud up the issue? Ha! Many waves, many boards.

37
Quote:
what about flex? surftech boards have a really bad flex pattern, you can make an epoxy board with flex but those one have been built the wrong way....

You make a good point. There are reasons to use polyurethane foam and there are reasons to use polystyrene foam. It could be personal preference as well as mechanical properties. Although to a lesser extent, the same goes for using epoxy or polyester resin. There’s no one material that is better than the other, it’s all about what you want to achieve.

Can you make an EPS board that rides like a polyurethane board? Of course. But without a doubt, you will have to redesign it…from how thick it is, to how much glass you use…it will not look the same.

38
Quote:

But surfers should never claim to be green. We should all know the amount of chemical shit that goes into the atmosphere during the manufacturing of materials and making of a board.

The beautifully crafted stick you carry into the waves did not fall out of the trees. And if it’s a wooden board, then the tree has already fallen.

I agree with you Wildy, surfers are as guilty as the next guy for creating/promoting/using toxic chemicals in pursuit of pleasure. However, we can still BE green to a certain extent by choosing what we ride, whom to support, and to minimize waste through recycling, carpooling to surf spots, biking to the beach, and riding boards that aren’t “disposable” – i.e. a board surfed regularly that will last over a year.

I don’t think the enviro issues should be completely ignored, and it seemed that many posters on this thread were concerned predominantly with ethics. To each his own; Live and let live.

39

sorry this comes so far down the thread ,but ive been to busy to get a reply in …

what you said about hype and the workings of the surf media are so true …ill give you one example of mine from 91 …

this freelance photographer/writer comes into my factory ,he just saw the sign and dropped in , he had no idea about what boards we did ,anyway hes blown away ,he says " ive been all over the world and to think youd find boards like these in such a far away place"

he gets all excited tells me who he is and how hes gonna do an article …any way a few days later he shows me what hes done ,it was real well written ,i gave him some details on contruction , he lists a few credible names of some of my early team riders , a few nice photos…looked good

a few days later he rings me up and says "the editor wont run the story as it constitutes free publicity " hes gob smacked , he reckons he said to the editior "these things are amazing there’s nothing like em anywhere in the world…"the editors reply was "tell him if he runs an add we’ll give some editorial space "

so thats it you give em money they print nice stuff about ya ,dont give money to mags and your doomed to obscurity…along with your teamriders…

and to back that one,i remember in 2001 after justin redman just won his second aussie national longboard title not one mag even ran his photo in any of the contest follow up stories,yet they will run page after page of other lesser surfers who are the teamriders of there paying advertisers ,

look i dont expect these guys to work for free and its obvious they will look after there paying customers ,but at the end of the day the surf media has a bias slant to the commercial side of surfing ,a genuinely gifted surfer or a unique develpment in equipment will simply get ignored coz it doesnt pay the bills …where as all the hype and supposed new products and developments along with pictures of the supposed best surfers are only in the mags coz they paid for it…

by the way this thread has been a ripper check the number of views,it just keeps living…

regards

BERT

40

Hey Bert,

You said so well:

but at the end of the day the surf media has a bias slant to the commercial side of surfing ,a genuinely gifted surfer or a unique develpment in equipment will simply get ignored coz it doesnt pay the bills<<

Cheyne proved that one 4 years in a row on the circuit but his heart is in the right place and continues to teach others to surf along with taking the limits of single fin surfing further than anyone on the planet that I know of. I hope he’s doing well he certainly diserves a lot of credit. As we know money drives the politics of the surf scene or any scene for that matter. Having great ideas that’s one thing but if you want recognition you only get it if you’re in it for the long run unless you have $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$s and the right people around you. French’s success is a reflection of excellent business management and intelligent investment of funds and product choice along with a great advertisement front. We have to remember that advertisement and disposable products drive much of the world market. Surfboards are no different. I am very thankful there are a few, like yourself and a few others like George Greenough and Doug Haut that hold on to the true essence of what surfing is really about, which I’d sum up as personal expression of building it and riding it and focusing not what you have, how you look, what you can buy, or flooding the market with planned obsolecence, which we know can backfire bigtime.

Give a wave ~ get a wave, Rich