what do you think of randy french?

General Discussion
41

Good post Bert and Halcyon,

Glad you mentioned Cheyne to go along with Berts take on hype. Go to his website and click on his contest record and tell me how he did not win the title in 1982 when he won almost half the contest and placed in the top five in many of the rest or look at his debut in 79 and how they did not count his last wave that would have won the title. Cheyne was huge and marketable, but he did not play by the rules the magazines and surf companies set. He wanted to choose his own path and has paid for it even today. He won the first Billibong xxl hands down. The guy was ripped. You look at the wave he rode and compare it to the one that won it. They banned him from the masters for two years for not defending his title and you did not see any movies from Quik about him blitzing Tom Carrol in France. The mags print what they are told to print by their sponsors, so they should be given no credit on anything regarding board design and surfers talent. Surf clothing and the material world it represents has nothing to do with going surfing. As for boardbuilders and surftech, I realize the writing is on the wall, but Randy still is not out of the woods. Many bigger fish have gone down, who have made much more money. His boards are not an improvement, they are an alternative and paying a worker $250.00 a month even if it’s double the average does not make it right and depending on circumstances could be abject slavery. I am against selling American jobs overseas as much as I am against the sorry state of American workers who want more money for less or inferior work, but sorry workers or not it will hurt us in the long run. I still challenge anyone to go and live the life of a surftech labor worker and tell me you want to change places with them. If you really want to help that country and those workers, we should try and help them get an economy that is something other than human labor. I think people should quit the crap about it helping those people. Those humans being in Thailand are simply a means that allows business owners to fatten their wallets. They are a export product themselves.

As for Green: If you want to be a tree hugger green freak, Surfboard building is not the place for it at this time. It would be nice, but all of it is green free.

42

I worked for a guy who sponsored and made boards for many of the top French amatuer surfers. Most of those guys were sponsored by gotcha, lots of clothes mainly, and was specified that their logo go prominently on the nose of the board.

I had some objections to this, as they played no part in the boards design, manufacture or supply, particularly cost.

I suggested to the coach, that as their company professed ‘more core’ and commitment to their so called hard core roots, then why didn’t they sponsor us. We were uniquely located, two experienced surfers and boardmakers, we were prominent in the line-up every day, and we could do with a new pair of boardies.

Even one little pair of shorts would have made putting that twisted ‘G’ under the laminate a lot easier.

You guessed right, the answer was no.

43

Okay, maybe I was a bit harsh on the Surftech thing. Afterall, they have no edge on the local guy simply because the local shaper can turn around a board in a couple days. I know of a shaper in Encinitas who can squeeze more resin out of a laminating coat than anything. Then, he put’s about one drop of resin into his gloss coat and sands it so thin (all on top of an ultralight blank) that you have to tie it to the ground to keep it from floating away. Why, just the other day I put on my leash, zipped up my wetsuit, and then look around for my board. Where did it go? Oh, silly me, it was floating above my head. Good thing I put on my leash first.

My point (if my lack of short term memory doesn’t interfere) is that this guy can take my order and within three days I’m picking it up and taking it out. The man is a genious with the planer and cloth (not the same genious, but a genious nevertheless). His glass jobs have tons of little bubbles, but before you knock him on that, he does it on purpose. Nobody glasses them thinner. And if they wear out sooner than a Stifftech, so what. I don’t mind buying another, brother.

But, to be honest, I have no real beef with Surftech. And I don’t care if they are made in China. Some of the best Chinese food is from China. Oh, yeah. They are made in Thailand. Some of the best Thai food is made in Thailand.

But, like I said before, lighter isn’t always better. I love longboarding and prefer a volan-glassed noserider like DT makes and Cooper. These boards are, to me, real longboards.

By the way, last summer Colin McPhillips was out at San-O ripping on his 9,0, and it wasn’t a Surftech, so it doesn’t take a Surftech to be world champ.

And that brings me to my final point: If the technology is superior, wouldn’t it be the dominant board used on the mens and women’s shortboard tour and the men’s and women’s longboard tour? The technology has been mainstream in surfing for at least five years that I know, and in the sailboard community for much longer than that. I have read pro endorsements, but I haven’t heard any of THEM say it is superior technology. I guess it’s kind of like electric cars. Yeah, it seems like a good idea, but it still isn’t superior to my 64 1/2 289, V8 Mustang. Which one would YOU rather drive? One is heavier and uses more energy, but gives such a good ride (and the chicks dig it—ladies are not impressed with a Toyota Prius).

Dino Miranda is the only world champ of surfing that I can recall who regularly uses a Surftech, but I wonder if that is what he used to win his championship (of if it became his board of choice after someone gave him an endorsement). Most pros in all areas of surfing have had plenty of time to try Surftechs, Boardworks, and other forms of Epoxy, and few of them are giving it a serious go because they know what stands the test of time.

Surftech is the Brittany Spears, Ricky Martin and Macarena of surfboards.

Polyurethane is the Beatles, Stones, Clapton, Led Zepplin. It will stand the test of time.

Put it this way: In fifty years they will still be using polyurethane (until all that oil runs out).

God Bless the V8.

44

The Beattles, Stones, Clapton, and Led Zepplin all have one thing in common. Their music is beautiful and nostalgic to us old people. But the bands are crusty and fragile and falling apart or are dead. Brittany is downright more sexy, sleek, and resilient. She’s even lighter weight and can do a mean 360 without breaking. As far as the Toyota Prius, I know girls who would gladly wax in the back seat of one. As far as being green/environmental in the surf industry, two boards I’m developing/riding now are 100% recycleable. The construction would be too spooky for me to explain at this point. On topic though…I’ve known Randy French since the mid-eighties Gorge days. He has developed his company with very limited self financing, so he wasn’t supported by big brother or the media. He’s had to scratch and claw to get the recognition he is now getting. If he were selling cheap Asian PU boards,I would understand people being critical/festered. But he’s selling products that people really want. And they pay more to get them. I sell his boards and not one of my customers in the last four years will buy another polyester board after riding a Surftech. But I’m from an area with lots of heavy, thick waves. So a little extra durability is very important. As far as the Thai employees, my next door neighbor is from there. They love working for Cobra. Someone on this thread said that nobody would want to trade places with a Cobra employee. To be honest, I’d rather do that than trade places with a U.S. glass shop employee…cleaner factory, proportionately twice the wage, in-factory Thai kitchen on tap, and lots of stunningly beautiful co-workers. I’m gonna move to Thailand, buy a Toyota Prius, get a job at Cobra, eat the best, listen to Brittany and surf the wind chop of Phuckett beach. Love Delbert Pumpernickel

45

This rotten smell won’t go away.

The last time I checked, Surftech was the only surfboard manufacturer to give a margin to the middle man, the surfshop owner. It makes people happy to sell something if they get something in return.

Randy French works hard at making his products better. He’s a good guy and deserves the success he is having.

Amen Holly!

46

Okay, I know I should just shut up about this, and I am sure I have worn out my welcome on this topic, but one of my questions went a bit unanswered:

If this technology is really, in fact, superior or even equal to polyurethane, then why aren’t more pros using it? There has been more than enough time for them to give it a try, and I bet most of them have, but they probably don’t like it. Even with today’s ariel-dominated mentality, I’m surprised people like Bruce Irons, Andy, Slater (and all the other top dudes) haven’t started using it. I doubt it has much to do with sponsorship, because those guys would ride an ironing board if they thought it would get them more wins. And the big dollars they earn aren’t from surfboard sponsors but from clothing sponsors. So, why aren’t they all making the switch if it is superior technology?

Because it isn’t superior technology. In fact, it isn’t even new (but advertised as such). They (Surftech) like to call it third generation (Wood, Poly, and then Surftech), but like I said, it isn’t revolutionary. Styrofoam has been around longer than me. Plastic was invented, I believe, in the thirties, and I remember Michael Baron using epoxy resin when I was fourteen (I am now 35).

I am very impressed with French’s ability to run a business (if it is, in fact profitable, since I hardly ever see these things) but I am not at all impressed with the product. What’s the big deal?

Oh, and what about Mark Richards and Simon Anderson? They were guys who shaped AND surfed professionally. What do they think about it?

Like I said, if it is THAT good, then more of the top pros would be riding it. Unless, of course, the top professionals in the sport of surfing are clueless.

I doubt that very much. These guys, although not shapers, have been studying surfboard design since they were knee high to a grasshopper.

47

Fairmont-

First of all, now that I see that you are a Ford man. I know now we can never be friends. Just Kidding. I own a 62 Pontiac Bonneville (came with a 389 but pulled a 400 out of a '69 firebird)

I, like you can respect a fine piece of American made steel for sure, my family strictly drives old Chevys, nothing newer than '76. 72 impala, 72 chevy truck, 76 Caprice, and the old 49 truck and 51 suburban sitting in my dads yard (not running.) But before this becomes a big dick waving cock fight, let me tell you this: Surftech SUCKS. Why? Well for one, building surfboards overseas costs American workers jobs. Why should Americans have to sit at home trying to figure out how they are going to feed their families when big companies like Surftech sit and reap the benefits of cheap foreign labor? I don’t know… they shouldn’t. Next reason to hate Surftech: They are a money making machine. Big Business, Period. No “love,” no “soul” no nothing… just a bunch of F**king Kooks trying to make money. You know whats happening in the Tech industry right now? Outsourcing: laying off programmers/ tech support etc and hiring overseas firms to fill the holes. Places like India. My programmer freinds are talking about getting ready to be paid in frigging rupees. (Jokingly… but not really) What ever happend to Labor unions and Being proud of your country? I’ll tell you what! Morons started voting Dpshts like George W. Bush into office. Thats the kind of shit people should be concerned about… Thats what we care about right? But then people say, but what about my TV, my car etc… wetsuit… they were all made overseas? Thats the point… WHAT DO AMERICANS MAKE ANYMORE? i BUY American whenever I can. We work in department stores, we run cash registers… we work at gas stations… shoestores… waiting tables… managing other people… As the craftspeople slowly die off. Curse Randy French for taking yet another small way that a poor guy get by with just his hands making a few bucks here and there, making it into yet another huge company and taking the work overseas.

The construction methods used on surftechs are debatable. vs. polyU boards? Who knows? I say, its a different method of construction, and I am glad to see it in the market… nothing like a little fire under our sweet american boardbuilding asses to make a little progress. What did you think that we reached the apex of surfboard design and construction? Is it “Well Ok boys, PolyU boards have been created, time to go home!” And so for the rest of my life I am gunna sit here and fiddle with pu and be happy? And listen to guys tell me that there is nothing superior?

My Point? In case I got a little to worked up: Hate the company, but not cause the product is different. But because companies like that are trying to kill off the little guy, you and I. -Carl

48
Quote:
If this technology is really, in fact, superior or even equal to polyurethane, then why aren't more pros using it?

It’s not about being superior. It’s about preference.

These materials have different characteristics. An EPS/epoxy board will generally be lighter. Is lighter better? Should we take a vote to form a consensus? Once we get the tally we can all sleep at night. And we can tell the guys that lost the vote that they are riding the inferior boards.

It’s like saying that squash tails are superior to round pins. Or Van Gogh is superior to Picasso. Or Coke is superior to Pepsi. If you really want to know which is superior, go ride one, because only you can accurately decide what you find to be superior.

I’ve got nothing against the politics attached to this issue, but if you really want to do it right, you’ll leave the politics on the beach… and let it just be you… the board…and the waves.

And when you decide which one is superior, watch out, because just around the bend is something new, and you might want to give that a try. On the other hand, there are still some guys out there riding balsa…and no ones holding a gun to their head.

49

that was good start beatles…a n d balsa is Dizzy Gilespie and Miles Davis and redwood is Webly Edwards.Harry Owens, Ukulele IKE, and Johnny Noble and koa is the Royal Hawaiian Band and Queen Liliokalani wowie whadda gig…ambrose…sound track anyone?

50

A couple of small points taken here could be that the local shop owners actually make considerably more money selling Randy’s surfboards. The big longboard shop in town makes next to nothing selling polyester boards (maybe 10%), but relies on the overseas, sweatshop clothing that is so popular in mainstream U.S.A., and worldwide. The incentives to sell and make more money in local businesses are working for itself. So, those so called expensive boards of R. French give back locally more than the locally built polyester boards.

The last time I checked at my areas glass shop, or as they like to say factory, there are two Mexicans (a father and son)who do the brunt of the work , who by the way have earned enough money over the years to buy a house in So Cal, a laminator who is an ex-con / ex-drug addict, a live in girl friend beater who is now in the county jail, an a revolving door of guys who come and go on a regular basis. The calls from the jail are pretty constant “please bail me out”. In my opinion, they have super low wages and work long, hard hours to make their money w/ no benefits.

On the other hand, like someone here posted earlier, The 300,000. Square foot, state of the art factory where Randy French makes his boards give the workers higher wages than anywhere else in Thailand. For arguments sake, Randy French has given local businesses an opportunity to make more retail dollars, and the local builders a look at raising their prices to more of a living wage. Maybe if it were not for Channel Islands, Rusty, Stewart, and others making the cheaply made boards, we would all be better for it.

Looking at all of this “out sourcing”, over time has changed my mind too. I don’t think there will ever be anything but a world economy. This being said, it might be time to work with the system, not against it. After all, guys like the Irons brothers, Kelly, and other “top dudes”, are making multiple millions on endorsements to sell there products, many of which are made overseas.

51

http://www.cobrainter.com/

52

Wow,

This subject ruffles feathers.

Thanks Dale for the Cobra site info. As you can see they lay claim to improving current surfboard technology. I see no proof of it, I see no major pro riding them or proclaiming how surftech has changed their career results, and I am not speaking about everyone who rides one, but for the most part the only people who ride them at my beach are beginners or kuks.

I have owned a surf shop and taken my living from selling surfboards, my first surfshop had a factory in it where we produced surfboards in the back with the shop in front. I was exposed to high level of professionalism, pride in ones product, and quality craftsmanship that one can get from a boardbuilder, so I guess I have been spoiled. I guess the days of a label actually meaning something are coming to and end and the only thing worth considering is how much profit margin shop owners make or how much more money Randy French makes than your average shaper. I have nothing against either thing, but I simply prefer to deal with people who have built there own reputations on their own sweat and skill. When surfboards become simply a product there is not much magic left. Even if you buy a handshaped board off a rack, you know someone’s hands went into producing that board and that it will be unique in it’s own way from any other.

Shop owners for the most part have never had a shapers best interest at heart, because it’s so hard to make a living from a surfshop. They must by nature as a retailer look to the item they can buy the cheapest and make the most return on their money. There are a few that keep things basic, deal fairly, and actually put something behind their name, but even those are being replaced by department store look a likes. They have to sell the hype because that is all the surfshop, surf clothing business is made of. As I have said before, it is designed around the kuk who will overpay for cheaply made crap. No one not hung up on hype would spend their hard earned money on some of this garbage. I have seen these kids come into my shop and clean out my Volcom section just because of the name, regardless that the stuff was expensive cheaply made garbage. Nothing against Volcom. I sold it and I like most of those guys, but there is nothing behind it other than hype. No claim can be made that it is better made (they would not dream of it) or etc. Only that it’s the latest,greatest, coolest FASHION around. The same argument can be made with Boardworks and surftech.

When they actually make an improvement on board design, I will be one of the first on board and if you can make ten times the money on a real improvment even better. I will never feel differently about selling out our jobs overseas and singing the national anthem at the same time. I don’t care if Thailand workers are beating down the doors to get in. At $250.00 a month that should say something about our standard towards human beings. I still challegne anyone to change places with them. I would not want to.

53

http://forum.surfermag.com/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/1425/password//sort/1/cat/all/page/1

Always cut your sandwich in half and share!

54

Hi all,

A couple thoughts. I try to buy American. I bought a new Ford f-150 in 92. Opened the door when I got home to learn it was made in Canada. Great truck,though. Got 185K on it. Went to buy new truck. Wife vetoed new Ford cuz of the miserable safety rating. Bought the Tundra. Made in South Carolina. The robot gadgets that make the vehicles are produced over seas. My point is buying Amercian no longer has a point. If you think voting for the anti-bush will help remember who signed NAFTA into law(Bubba). I don’t buy Surftech because they are ugly and look funny to me. I don’t want a board shaped on a machine, either. Now I shape my own boards and am more stoked than ever even though they are not very good, yet, and I encourage others to do the same even though this cuts into the pro’s action. Here’s the BIG secret that took me 30 years to learn. You can make your own surfboard. Just another former Ford guy Moron who voted for the “Little Bush.” Mike

55

On an On…First off all surfboards are cheap junk if you get down to technical details.Its Fred Flintsone era materials.You ought to see what the aircraft boys are using…it’s incredible.There is an Aircraft factory near me that builds Multi million Dollar Gulfstream Jets,they have the real deal if you want it.A new honeycomb foam and composite skins that are light and virtually bulletproof.And speaking of shaping machines they have one bigger than a mack truck that mills stuff out that looks like it was polished…accurate to within a trillionth of an inch or something like that.Without getting into the details you can have a nice 9’0" noserider built for around $40 thousand bucks(including custom fin and leash).All made in the USA with technology developed in the former Soviet Union.

56

ok lets see if this point finally gets across …most high profile pros …say in the top 20 would get close to 150 new boards a year ,50 of those get a glance and disgarded ,then another 50 get ridden and then disgarded,after a few waves,the next 50 get riden more than once 30 of them get left laying around mates use em not quite up to scratch…then the last 15 or 20 actually get used and there liked and about 3 of them are magic,the most insane boards ever, so finnally a couple of magic boards out of 150 ,so there the perfect boards for the guys height and weight ,then it gets molded into a surftech a copy of that perfect board…

ITS A PIG!!!

what ? it doesnt work …after all that you cant translate a magic board of one construction technique and its materials into the contruction technique of another …different materials have different performance characteristics…and the flex ,stiffness,floatation,memory,energy transfer ,and so on have to be considered in the design and shape of the board …so unless a pro is riding custom epoxy boards and is working with a shaper refining and fine tuning in those materials , its only then that those boards when copied into surftech will get peoples attention…

which leads into my next question…what would you do if you were me ???

im currently sitting on an 8 month waiting list for custom epoxies…this week ive decided to stop taking orders for a few months till it gets back to a sensible waiting period…ive told my secretary ,“that unless someone is dieing im out of range”

so i get an order from a top ten pro…but i got an 8 month wait of full paying customers,ok so hes got no problem with paying the money ,not that keen on the wait tho,not really keen on the price either ,but thats life ,i say im gonna spray it white with no logos , because i wouldnt be able to deal with the exposure he would get riding my boards,if ive already got an 8 month wait with no pros what happens when he gets seen on them???

like i really want more work…?

the bottom line is the pros ride what they get paid to ride …by companies who want to sell more boards,surftech cant compete with large poly producers because its to difficult for them to fine tune a board for individual pros needs …

they could pay a pro but they havent got the abilty to customise and tune so it couldnt really work…

then on the other hand me, a custom epoxy board builder isnt really interested in making more boards and paying a guy 100,000 us a year to a pro…

as far as im concerned if he wants one he pays and waits like everyone else …

so why arent the pros riding them ??? because at the moment theres about 3000 times more custom p/u builders than there is eps /epoxy builders…have you ever known a pro from any sport which uses high performance equipment to just grab a mass produced everyday product off the shelf and use it ???

why would it be any different with surfboards…???

time will eventually even things out ,the current well known shapers who have conventional materials fully worked out will eventually be replaced by the next generation of builders who can take performance to the next level with new materials and composite contruction …its just that at the moment theres very few ,and no one here especially the old time board builders would deny …it takes a dam long time to have a good understanding of design ,to be capable of producing boards good enough to satisfy pro surfers…so what that means is even tho the materials have been around for a while ,the time it takes to learn to shape functional boards out of any medium ,means that the very first guys to take a new direction in contruction technology are only just coming of age in there knowledge of board design relevant to the performance characteristics of the contruction materials good enough to satisfy pro surfers…,

so please be patient …its happening bit by bit every day …

eventually a few companies with the bucks and the bussiness sense and the ability to customise for pros will emerge and things will change forever…

regards

BERT

57

Pro’s…Magic Boards…what a crock.I shaped a board for a pro and he was in the room when I shaped it.He rode it and brought it back saying it sucked.I made him another one…close but not quite there yet."Make me another one"said the Pro.“Okay” I said.So at that point I took the first board I originally made and changed the resin color work.After riding it he prounounced it the best board he ever rode.Does anyone get my point??

58

Carl lighten up,and try tokeep an open mind.Changes are already coming and we better face it.What are you going to think when polycarbon coated surfboards start showing up?

59

A couple more points here now that this thread is two weeks old but still kicking.

One might be that Louis, the guy that started the tread, let go with a loaded question… He could have easily left his opinion on the takeoff instead of the kick out. What do you think of Randy French? Now, here we are, from Santa Cruz to Thailand and back a few times.

Second – The pro thing. What’s up with that? All of a sudden the soul guys care about what a pro guy rides? Most of the time the people here are jamming on displacement hulls, fish, single fins, retro long board , or somewhere in between. The endorsed Pro surfer, is making money away from the surfboard itself. Selling the image with clothes, watches, shoes, what ever.

Since 99.99% of all surfers are not professionals, why bother giving away millions of $ to a few, who in a lot of instances would ride anything that is free and will keep them surfing along their merry way. The biggest bang for the buck. I think more people are interested in who designs and shapes the plugs. So far, quite a lot of respectable people have contributed in one form, or another. A large number of great riders have helped out too. The big money is in advertising. Getting it out there so Joe surf in New Jersey can have a Yater or a Bill Hamilton and not have to wait 8 months, or order a board in the winter when they will only be able to ride in the summer, KUK or not.

Randy French and a few other great shapers have dialed some of the characteristics of their boards to be really good. The people I know that are involved in the projects are into it way more than the money they make. The technology interests them enough to make changes with their research and development, and would gladly take on other methods if they arise.

So they sell 10,000 boards a year, who cares, I think some of them are down right weird shapes, but a lot of them I like. I’m not into all the colors either, but some aren’t bad. It’ is hardly killing the market. It’s a big world / it’s all good.

Don’t worry – Be Happy

60

RF is not the anti-christ just a marketing wizard. He’s producing an image for a product that has marketability and some features that are beyond todays standard board. Thing is, if the surfboard industry would actually do a bit of good ole fashioned R&D, they could pass RF’s technology within a few months. The materials are out there today to make a better product. Just takes a bit of work. As for what Bert has been saying on this thread… wake up gents… he’s dead on right. And yes Cleanlines, I know many pro’s who are waiting for their big Hollywood break… the casting call for the next Clueless movie is right around the corner.