Lets say I essentially was able to copy a favorite board of mine using Shape3d or Aku, etc.
and stored the file as an attachment to a thread and stated the dimensions, original shaper it was associated
with, etc.
What if?
What if…
shaper’s were to be able to pattent their shapes, so who ever copies them would have to pay them for copyright infringment?
What if…
What if… the same dollar bill had to be circulated around to everybody, because we all copied off of each other.
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What if… the same dollar bill had to be circulated around to everybody, because we all copied off of each other.
This is a serious question my friends.
As to a design patent, that doesnt fly if you knew anything about patents.
a Microsoft EULA (End Users License Agreement) may be a suggestion.
But what about a major board mfg. who is having his boards made in China.
Wouldnt having a file accessible on a forum, or this forum, enable people in the surfboard industry(glassers, machine shapers, etc)
to be employed here(USA) instead of China. --This would trump the current trend morality issue with alot on this forum.
Also the files are very small , much smaller than a .jpg.
What about this forum? Does it currently violate any forum rules?
Something to chew on.
Patent a shape? Well, you’d have to claim a substantially new and different shape with performance enhancements, etc., otherwise some of the big bugs in the biz would have done it long ago and everybody would indeed be paying them license fees already.
Now, copyrighting a board might be something else entirely. As a craftwork or artwork, that’s very copyrightable. But, if you just changed the color, lets say, and put your own spiffing little logo on there, then it’d be very interesting to a copyright lawyer…not to mention very remunerative to said lawyer.
And the original post said
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Lets say I essentially was able to copy a favorite board of mine using Shape3d or Aku, etc. …
The key word here is essentially - but not exactly. So it’s a non-exact copy, and copyright gets kinda interesting.
And it gets better:
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…and stored the file as an attachment to a thread and stated the dimensions, original shaper it was associated
with, etc.
Storing the file is not producing the board. In a lot of ways it’s the same as taking a photograph of the board and posting it. This gets interesting too - if you photograph a board, say against a gridwork background, and state the size of the grid, then someone could use that photograph to produce something that is essentially a copy of the original but not the original.
Or- lets say the original board is a 6’2" and it is flat out perfect for Moe, who is 5’6" and 145 lbs. But Larry ( 5’8" and 170 lbs) and Curly ( 6’1" and 200 lbs) download the specs and scale them up… what then? Oh, and Shemp, also 5’6" and 145, builds his identical to the specs but with epoxy/polystyrene while the original was polyurethane foam and polyester resin. We won’t get into Groucho, Harpo, Chico and Zeppo who changed the rail, rocker and fin arrangements a little to suit themselves.
See where this is going? A set of scanned board specs for a board of known performance starts to become a starting point, but that’s about all. And adding the original builder’s name and etc… if you use ‘inspired by’ to your credits on a board you produce with that set of specs, you’re probably more than covered.
Now, as I caught Otis’ reply late -
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But what about a major board mfg. who is having his boards made in China.
Wouldnt having a file accessible on a forum, or this forum, enable people in the surfboard industry(glassers, machine shapers, etc)
to be employed here(USA) instead of China. --This would trump the current trend morality issue with alot on this forum.
Well, maybe, except for a few things:
First off, that is assuming that the Amalgamated Balfoon ‘Made in ____’ board is a superior shape that is driving out competition because of superior quality, something I think quite a few would differ with.
Then, even if it was superior, you got Duuude San Diego, so-cal shaper, and his pal Fumes Torrance, glasser, whose glass shop is just down the street. With the EPA, California emission standards and wage scales and shipping and taxes and… you get the picture.
Put it another way, it’s like starting a factory, here, to build reproduction Yugos at three times the original price, y’know? Great way to take a tax loss, but overall prolly not a great plan.
Have fun, and hope that’s of some use
doc…who once opon a time dated a copyright lawyerette…
My point was …
What if? is all speculation
I’m sure someones already doing what otis said
but I would love to have a data base of board dimensions along with plan and profile view’s and of course the designers name.
SWEET!!!
by using the programs you mentioned you could not copy a board. atleast to the point it would be considered a true copy. those programs are working only in 2d and 3d in theory. it’s impossible to use those programs with close enough triangulated coordinates to be called 3d. you are only working in 2d and the the 3rd dimension is calculated through algorithms. it would be a close facsimile at best. but still far from a copy.
Bleh. This is not good. Cop an outline, and check out the rocker and figure out how it works the way it does, okay.
But actually scanning a guys’ boards and putting the .brd files on a forum or network? Not.
greg
What If ?
So What ?
Now, let me ask you oak, you seem to know a lot about these differences…
How much out do you think that a board “copied” with the 2d views designer programs would stay from a board copied with a real 3D model? Do you reckon it really will make that much difference in the water? or it’s more of an eye candy to see that board very true to the original one.
And wait… the lamination will not be the same… the blank will not be exactly the same as well…
I imagine that an original board (properly scanned and digitalized in both “real 3D” and “fake3D” CAD applications) compared to the clones will have such small differences that could be suppressed…
Ok… at the worst case… at the worst spot… how much out are we talking… ±.5mm?? Of course… say the board was scanned by the same scanning standard.
Anyway… I reckon much sooner than later any shaper with a positive approach to a computer will be able to produce magic stuff out of the freeware CAD systems available… so why even bother so much about copying a board with such detail?
sorry I went out of the topic… Ammm, I reckon… no board file bank should be made… or at the most a few basic shapes… but that’s already available out there…
regards
FMF
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by using the programs you mentioned you could not copy a board. atleast to the point it would be considered a true copy. those programs are working only in 2d and 3d in theory. it’s impossible to use those programs with close enough triangulated coordinates to be called 3d. you are only working in 2d and the the 3rd dimension is calculated through algorithms. it would be a close facsimile at best. but still far from a copy.
Future . . .
Logging into broadband for free was no problem. Ever since most new houses and business came built with fiberoptic, and this was the big pipeline not the old school stuff. Heck, even SOCOM had a 100 tetra / ns (nano sec) optic nerve setup for their spider cams they use for military SWAT B&E UW operations. So if youre the .99% who can surf better than 100% or works 60% of the time, all the time, you’d be happy with 3 Mega / s downloads as opposd to 120 jiga a SNS (split nano sec).
Not withstanding, the webpage called surfboardsnotkeyboards.com had a few new updates. 3D sophtware shaper with conversion files for all 256 of the shaping machines and cad thingy’s out there had just gotten real 3D surfboard’s entire line.
They even had some old school Al Merrick 82 and Japan only releases. The greatest was the Rusty C5 concaves circa 92.
Sushi K’s carbon enhanced on Tom Blake’s original was there too. A second later, they had Pro Surfer Millia Udetes’ new girl board line. Wow.
This outta be fun. I got the files in a blink of a eye and a thunk sound from Windows Cripsta. 256 bit architecture, finger tip computing.
Yes the Linux guys with Red Hat decided to go with Bloods n Bro’s and Gates wanting to go Sn00p Dog and Dr. Dre decided to go with Blue, the Cripes n Cuz.
JAMS. Just another marketing scheme.
Now which machine? The locals have been saying the new Cybertronian shaping machine you don’t even need to sand, you just glass it.
Or you could use the Migrant Glass Worker glassing machine, but remember to keep the PE tank above half full or it jams, or if going Epoxy, don’t mix the epoxy and keep it below 1/4 or else it bubbles the mix. Don’t get me started on Milwahkee sanding machine. They couldn’t use Milwaukee because the name is patented.
I was pissed when the MetroPolice nailed me for calling Susan out in public. That names trademarked so you can only call out Susan + another name or last name, never Susan by itself in open forum (public).
Too many options. I know a guy who owns 197 boards from top shops and famous names and hands on it, even the rare and collectible known as HAND SHAPED, but no time to ride. Always gotta debug or free some sort of jam.
The problem with HS boards (Hand SHapers) was dealing with paparazzi, kidnapping, people stealing goods or finding time to spend all their riches they got or surfing in line up without some guy or gal going ‘Hey its So an So. HE’S A HS’ER!! oMg!! NO WAY!!!’ and then try surfing when the whole beach is up trying touch you, or feel up your board. Nearly any surviving hand shaper has either got protection from one of the major countries, quasi busineness nation entities, or one of the surf industry conglomerates. A few are under rich moguls with private armies and diamond mecha.
Often times rivalries between the aforementioned entities usually got free lance shapers killed. You needed protection from jealous desires or go underground.
I had walked out with one of my shapes, and forgot to brush off sanding dust from ONE pintail tip. I should have been more alert but the Mini Copter (advanced model this one used nano sensors and quiet bearings) caught the wiff, analyzed the particles and deduced it came from rare diamond dust hone sand paper with true paper backing for wet n dry ops. I ran to my car, but the playboy bunny helo kept up despite the neighbors AFSS (anti flight spy shit) defenses.
That explains the next part:
out of nowhere a SUV '18 Escalade pulls up, crushing my car, and this model like lady and her 30 guards surround me. She says Henna Hamison (J is H in Spanish) playmate of the year, and asks if that’s mine. Stupid move #2 I say yes. She screams "A RLHS!! Oh A RLHS!! (REal Life Hand Shaper).
from 20 mini copters or NMS (nano movable sensor) mini vehicles and different genero mil spec guys and gals, a few Fed FBI agent looking people show up. All mixed nationalities of course. The crowd wants me.
I had to throw the fish away and run for my left. You should have seen their faces!! Apprehend me or save the last of the free hand shaped board worth more than 8 small countries. Bird in hand or potential flock in bush. But I could do what other captured RLHS guys have done and done nothing then get shot, tortured, or killed anyways.
Everyone knew RLHS’ lifespan was short and many just didn’t care. They were only alive if they were free in anycase.
But they decided to fight for the fish. I was gone. Optic cammoflage is handy sometimes, I was a round and thick football lineman bruiser. I saw it many hands rescuing it, like children delicately plucking flowers. It exchanges hands . . . many times depending on how quick. Last I saw it had a scratch. Whoever owned it would spend millions trying to find a RDRM (real ding repair man woman tech) then more to get them to accept and do the job.
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Now, let me ask you oak, you seem to know a lot about these differences…
How much out do you think that a board “copied” with the 2d views designer programs would stay from a board copied with a real 3D model? Do you reckon it really will make that much difference in the water? or it’s more of an eye candy to see that board very true to the original one.
And wait… the lamination will not be the same… the blank will not be exactly the same as well…
I imagine that an original board (properly scanned and digitalized in both “real 3D” and “fake3D” CAD applications) compared to the clones will have such small differences that could be suppressed…
Ok… at the worst case… at the worst spot… how much out are we talking… ±.5mm?? Of course… say the board was scanned by the same scanning standard.
Anyway… I reckon much sooner than later any shaper with a positive approach to a computer will be able to produce magic stuff out of the freeware CAD systems available… so why even bother so much about copying a board with such detail?
sorry I went out of the topic… Ammm, I reckon… no board file bank should be made… or at the most a few basic shapes… but that’s already available out there…
regards
FMF
chico, I have gone down this long road, looking back from 1988 when I started this trek. I am no expert, but I have utilized and experimented with many different scanning techniques. The incremental cross section (slices) 2d method and technique to scan is the most inaccurate method of scanning. technically speaking it isn’t really a scan. it’s just a method of plotting like connecting the dots and relying on the program to “fill in between the dots.”
Comparing the deviations from the over the counter 2d method to a true 3d you would be lucky to have .5mm deviation at any given point on the board. If you were to over lay the tool paths from a true 3d scan over the 2d scan and added up all the deviations it would be thousands of mm to many inches out of spec.
Nothing wrong with the 2d method, it’s a simple and user friendly way to profile boards. But many of these over the counter machine owners/operators are claiming they are scanning boards in reality they aren’t. Not their fault, it’s ignorance. It’s what they are lead to believe by the machine salesmen.
I have many clients that have gone down this road and have spent many hours and wasted many blanks from trial cuts to be very disappointed.
I must say I am interested in knowing more about your method…
How do you do it Oak? scan it with a digitalizing probe and a tridimensional machine? and what do you use to process the coordinates? 3rd party software and convert stuff into .dxf?
it’s proprietary and it’s a long and complex process. simple it aint. now if I devulge my methods it would take the challenge out of the other sway members to discover.
I was once told by wise old sage. “to always leave enough for others to discover.” lol.
So far from the respondents, I’m getting the feeling that if I make a board using Shape3D/Aku etc
It would be okay to attach my board file here with a post
saying something to the effect.
Here is a Shape3D board file, 6’3" , xx wide, xx thickness,etc created using a 'XYZ Surfboard, Shaper Joe FamousShaper, medium wave California Thruster ’
and test ridden to ride as well as the original board in a poor/fair/good/excellent fashion.
I am 6’9" 110lbs.
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but I would love to have a data base of board dimensions along with plan and profile view’s and of course the designers name.
HOw about the book Essential surfing? Wasn’t there supposed to be an updated/new release of that?
I Think I have the latest
but it doest list all boards that I would like to see