Hi, new project may end up being a single fin, the foil i’m using is a tweaked shaun thomson shape. Anybody got any tips on what makes a great single fin ?
Back to the first question, it all depends on the type of single fin and the surf it is being ridden in and how it is being ridden. Same thing rings true regardless of the fin set up. Some kook surfing a mushy beach isn’t going to be looking for the same things in a board as a pro surfing Snapper rocks.
I will agree with NJ Surfer, clean outlines, low rocker is what really makes the boards tick, regardless of all other parts of the design. With the rocker, you don’t have side fins to drive off of so the low rocker is key for speed. Wether it is a 8’ hull or a modern super HP single fin(Youtube: Rusty Sinle life), those things seem to hold true.
I think it’s very important to be mindful about where you plan to use a board. What I think is good is based on my personal experience surfing where I’ve surfed. That’s kind of shallow since I only surf in Hawaii. I do believe that you can surf with power on single fins, but it’s diiferent from surfing on thrusters, quads or other multi finned board. Terry Fitz, Barry Kanaiaupuni, Jeff Hakman all surfed pulling off heavy turns. That was the generation I worshipped and where my foundation for surfing was based. A good many Aussies came here in the early 70’s and surfed with power and grace. Same for S. Africans. There’s something about the way a single on a bigger wave rides that’s so much fun. Solid overhead waves give you enough time and distance to lay it out and surf with powerful and graceful turns. You can also shove that board on its edge and get a hell of a rocket like reaction, just watch the older movies. I think hulls work that way too, but I’ve never ridden a “real” hull.
Nice boards Barry. You make some nice ones, especially the agave boards. Always finished so beautifully.
I should add that I sometimes use a Brewer 7.5", and I have a Bonzer with the proper bonzer center fin. The Brewer fin and the Downing fins were the basic “fins” we all had in the 70’s. Then Hynson made his Dolfin. Bertleman brough back narrower fins, and I think that’s where the one I got that was similar to the Greenough. It’s on this yellow and white T&C from about 1977. You can see the Bertleman influence where the fin can be placed so far up the board.
I like the way it feels solid and drivey. I have a few cutaway fins that I used in my 8’ eggs that I liked, but when I started riding shorter singles, I didn’t like the way they felt. I think the wide base is important. I had some similar in shape in the late 70’s on my boards, so that might be what I like, a familiar feeling. I also have a Jr Boy on one of my 8’ eggs and I like the way that board works. There’s a Velzy fin that has a narrow tip with lots of rake. I want to try one of those, but I haven’t.
I have tremendous respect for Greenoughs designs, and while I don’t like the hatchett fin, the 4a and 4c work for me. It was what MP was using when he rode the stubbies, and a lot of where I’m at now started out when I first started making compsands. I was trying to get a short very manuverable board that worked on a variety of waves. I ended up making this stubbie. That’s when I first got the 9" stage 4a. That board is too thick and wide for a single fin. I was nursing it though turns instead of powering through them. It came alive when I added sidebites, and works great as a 2 + 1 or a thruster (3 equal sized fins). It surfs very much like a fish, but with the 3 fins it has a lot of bite. You can really feel the difference when you change up from a single fin to multiple fins. The board reacts so differently. It squirts out of turns like fish do with the side fins. Feels like a skateboard. Singles don’t do that, you get deep carving turns, or you spin out.
The 9" can be a bit too much for shorter boards so I got a 7.5" and I use that a lot in my shorter boards, with or with side fins. I really want to get the MP board back in the water to feel the combination of the thin rails and the single fin again. I want to make something closer to 7’ for paddling, but with the thin rails and big single fin. I’m thinking about reshaping the rails on this one because it has beefy full rails. I think the rocker is OK, so I just need to re-profile the deck and thin out the rails. That will allow me to get rid of the ugly top lam too. Probably end up looking like what Alex Knost is riding these days.
Shark, what do you like about the 4A?? Thinking of trying one. I like drawn out carves
I thought we were talking about single fins…
On the East Coast (NJ) those knifey, down railed and Bolt type boards just didn’t work. I actually rode one a number of times, so I’m talking from personal experience. Other single fins that sucked were those Challenger (gasp! … I know… Blaphemy! From a Jersey guy, no less) singles designed for… well, I don’t know what for…but there were Challengers that worked, and they were the longer more longboard type singles, and the shorter versions that everybody had, that were dogs. I had one, and when I switched over to my first fish, it was a new world. Even logs with those pinched rails don’t work as good as logs with medium volumed, soft, round rails around here. And for points of reference, I’m talking the old G&S Stretch logs, all the way through the knifey railed Hap Jacobs logs of today.
The singles I"ve been building and riding for the past 8 years or so have nothing to do with a “shortboard” approach to surfing. They’re never under 7’0, have a little weight to them, turn smoother than anything else, and tuberide like a Cadillac… you feel like you’re floating on air. Forget power turns… that’s not what they’re about. It’s about pure with-the-wave surfing that people call “old school” only for a lack of a better term.
My theory is that I place the long box far enough back to convert the board to a thruster, so they are somewhere about 3.5 to 4 inches from the tail. I ride the board enough to decide if I need to add side fins, and add them if I think it would help. So far on the boards I have I only need the side fins on boards 6.5’ or less. It could be that they were shaped from PU blanks and had modern rockers. Most of the others are EPS blanks I made by gluing up 6" wide strips using rockers I created. I like boards with low rocker and wide point forward of center. I get good drive off the bottom and just have to step further back to loosen them up. I like square tails, swallow tails, diamond tails for the longer straighter outline in the tail.
The white board in my earlier post was designed after reading Michael Peterson’s biography. He was one my influences for cutbacks, the raw animal power gouges. That board is only 6’ and has knifey down rails with an edge. According to the book, MP liked knifey rails. I haven’t used that board for several years, but I liked it when I did.
I’ve been wanting to get that board back in the water for over a month, but it just hasn’t been big enough for me to deal with the crowds. I made small sidebites for that board and I want to see if having them makes it better or not.
I guess you could say that for me, I prefer boards under 7’ to be more modern with multiple fins, usually quads, and boards over 7’ older style single fins for drawing longer lines. I’ve found that I don’t like boards between 7’3" and 7’10". They are either too long or too short. 7’10" and on, I consider long, and I like them because I can paddle them well yet I can turn easily. Get in early and enjoy. From 6’6" to 7’2" I’m looking at these as the step up performance boards. When you need a semigun. 6’6" and under are the “fun” boards, the boards that I can take out and turn circles if I want. The boards I’d ride everyday if there were no crowds. Just gotta be mindful that I may not catch many waves if there a lot of people out. These are not single fins.
Either way, I like to go fast, fast, fast, and cover lots of ground. I don’t try to make that big maneuver and let the wave pass me by, I try to make the sections and ride as far as I can, then paddle back out. With a single, I’ve found that when you want to get around a section you need to get your weight into it and bury the rail. I’ve had guys tell more than a few times when I make those turns that I look “old school”. Makes sense because I learned back then.
My cousin used to make boards for Lightning Bolt in the early days, when all boards were single fins. After the thruster came out I asked him what he thought and he laughed and said you only need one fin. In many ways I agree, but surfing has changed a lot and short high performance boards with multiple fins are a lot of fun.
My favorite fin is the 9" greenough stage 4a. I have a lot of different fins, but I like that one a lot, so I have it in several sizes. I have all the others like cutaways or other styles in 9" only.
I think a couple things make great single fins…
Clean outines - I know they look cool, but wings don’t necessarily make great singles. In fact, they can do more harm than good many times.
Rounded pin tails - no tail feels better with a single fin than a rounded pin.
Simple bottoms - my all time favorite singe fin was just flat to vee.
Soft tucked edges through the middle, hard in the tail, round up front
Low, continuous rocker - again, I think simple is better here
Resin tints and pinlines! - this elegant design is worthy of the extra time and effort
Sharkcountry, how far from the tail are you placing the rear of the fin box, for example on a 7’6"? Those look like 10.5" boxes in your pictures?
You need to make boards that fit the waves you want to ride. The tear drop hard rail single fins worked very well here in Hawaii. They were the best boards for the powerful big waves we have, and still work in that kind of surf. All the big guns are tear drop shaped but stretched out and single fin guns still work well. I have a few boards with very hard rails from the nose to the tail, and they work fine for me. I’m not sure why these boards would spin out, but a lazor zap with a wider thicker tail wouldn’t. All my experience has shown the opposite. I can get a 3 fin fish to spin out in big waves easier than an older teardrop thin sharp rail single.
Cheyne is about my age and I we were out at the same places in the late 70’s early 80’s. He ripped on the tear drop single fin semi guns. I was blown away at how well he surfed. I didn’t see the same speed in his turning and the power he used to get out of his turns when he went to the wide tailed singles. He was making the board work in big waves, compensating for the flaws. Everyone could see it because we saw how well he surfed before he switched. He just wasn’t the same.
If you put that board in different size and power, it’s a whole different thing. That’s why it’s important for people to understand that they need a board for the places they surf, and one kind of board will not be great everywhere. The exception is a longboard for small to medium waves.
In my experience, the rocker is especially important with hard edges and a little more forgiving with soft rails. A hard edge makes you surf the fin whereas a soft one lets you surf the rail. Hard edge, more rear foot. Soft, more front foot. Hard edge makes you keep your body over the stringer when you initiate a turn. Soft lets you lay the board over and wait while it sweeps under you. Its a feel/style kinda thing. This is in reference to the rails from just in front of the fin to the nose.
Your results may vary depending on the usual suspects like outline/foil/fin location
The best single fin is the one that fits your style of surfing in the waves you like to surf.
I haven’t seen where concave helps singles without other fins on the rails. I don’t think hard edges too far up the board work well on singles. I like the tucked edge, but personally not on Singles.
To me the height of performance oriented Single fins were the first and second generation Lazor zaps. I still think double enders are a really good single fin design also. I don’t really think there has been a huge amount of experimentation with them at the pro level since those times.
For fun. Anything works. It all works. Just depends on how you want to surf and what makes you feel good.
To me the worst single fins ever were the wide point forward, sharper railed boards of the early seventies. They spun out and they were sluggish coming out of turns. Some of them rode the tube well, but on every beach U.S.A. most were happy to be rid of them when other things came along.
Yeah, there’s a hard edge. On some of my boards it’s like that from about 18" from the nose all the way to the tail. I learned that from Greg Griffin.
Hey shark country do you place an edge in that tucked under rail. I couldnt see from the video, if tom did. Ive noticed alot of my favourite boards have a round rail with and edge that comes in from the rail in the back end.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pEp7WcS6CQ enjoy
he (wegener) said concave makes the board faster... I have had a different experience
[quote="$1"] Hi, new project may end up being a single fin, the foil i'm using is a tweaked shaun thomson shape. Anybody got any tips on what makes a great single fin ? [/quote] Good topic standishowl......they're different things to different people , I think.........I like the simplicity.....there's nothing on a good single , that doesn't need to be there......
That Wegener video is great. I make similar shapes. I call that rail a tucked under rail. I like flat rocker, it’s fast. That concave under the tail will be faster, that’s been proven since the 70’s with the bonzer. I prefer a flat bottom out the tail and concave under the nose area. I have boards with that bottom up near the middle, but I haven’t tried it out the tail, maybe next time. Yes, thicker tails are better than thinner tails on the singles, and you can easily put a long center box in there.
He didn’t mention that he has a wider outline. The wider tail outline, flatter rocker, rails, all add to a faster board. Too wide of a tail with a bit of thickness will make it spin out on bigger powerful waves. I add sidebite boxes for those days.
You need to remember where Tom’s coming from in his design. He’s been riding traditional logs and very long and clean waves. I think he rides mostly head high or smaller, maybe mostly waist high but really clean waves. He’s been using finless alaia boards for several years. All these things influence his designs. If you are making a board for overhead + you will need to adjust a lot.