"Studies on professional heavy duty wt. lifters"
… The research revealed that wt. lifting was at least 75% mental.
…There are alot of factors to consider here, when it comes to surfing, no doubt.
I like what gatordave had to say,there’s a lot of truth and soul in that statement.Herb
two&two before
have you ever considered that surfing “speed” is not a true sense? what i mean is while one board will feel faster then the other, they are going the same speed. i have a few favorite boards, fish, twin fins, single fins. the twin fin feels faster then all the others, but i believe that is only because it is such a loose quik turning board, it is fast and responsive from the get go. i have had two boards out at the same time, both me and a friend trading off, and the same waves that i could barely make on the twin fin were barely makeable on the fish. about every 5th session i swear to myself that i had reached a new top speed, faster then ever, and on different boards usually. maybe im completely wrong, but i firmly believe surfing speed is a trick of the senses that fools you into believing one board is faster due to the way it reacts.
Quote:asking why swallow tails are better for speed is like asking why loose trucks are good for speed, they’re not. a loose skateboard is no faster then a board set up for bombing hills, and does not handle the speed any better, but does give you that fast sensation at slower speeds then a very stiff board.
Maybe I’m wrong but I always believed swallowtails to be better for speed than, say, squaretails, because they provide a longer rail line and make you ride on a pintail when turning which means control (and control really is what you’re looking for when riding fast waves) while still retaining some width for turning ease at lower speeds. A swallowtail is basically a double pintail, isn’t it?
I don’t know what percentage of any athletic activity is mental. Pretty hard to quatify. But, the level of performance is predominately mental as long as you have done the physical prep leading up to the event. When I was a kid playing football there were several guys that were bigger, faster, quicker, stronger sitting on the bench watching me play. I convinced myself I was the baddest m-fer and the best player on the field when I stepped between the white lines. But I also did the physical prep. I also know many inferior atheletes to me in terms of pure ability that are superb surfers. Much better that me. What did Lambardi say? “Fatigue makes cowards of all men.” Mike
Laconic,
I was talking about 90% mental 10% surfboard. Not conditioning. Poor conditioning obviously plays a role in surfing. However may have had really good skill before becoming overweight or aging. Much of that skill does Not disappear until later in life. As Lee said. I see guys you would never expect to surf good go out and tear it up. No doubt they would do much better if in better physical condition, but they still rip. Your a ex olymipic class swimmer and as you and I discussed your still able to hit some great speed even though you no longer train that way.
There are things you can still do because it’s in your memory and muscle memory.
Some people are simply more athletic than others. Genes play the biggest role there.
On the surfboard thing. Way too much emphasis is placed on something like tail shape. Lets be honest most surfers can not really tell the diff. in something like tail shape. I more accurate way is to shape two boards exactly the same measurements, but with different tail shapes. I will bet the vast majority cannot tell the diff. if they are being honest.
…That’s the theory Balsa.In fact in the early days of the "fish"before it was commonly called that, we called them “twin fin/twin pins”.And “swallows”(single fin)were called, “twin pins”…sound about right,Yeah?
Being an xcollege athlete I can with absolute certainty sports are 90 percent mental. If you think your board will be able to do certain things…it will, and at the same time if you think it can’t do certain things…it won’t. So visualise what you want to do with your new board and go have fun.
Ja, Herb, “mental” is the discriminator within groups of highly selected individuals.
Thanks for the note, Solo, but I wasn’t Olympic caliber, just good enough to qualify for trials. My dissolution was clearly mental-based, there being too many distractions for this then-17 year old to cope with in college through the 2nd half of the '60’s.
I’d like to see the “speed challenge” come off, it might add some objectivity to what’s so subjectively based.
Take it from an expert: As Yogi Berra said, “90% of baseball is half mental”.
I bought a Rusty Pirannah a while back. Tripple wing swallow tail. Best shortboard I ever owned, period.
I am sold on the design, but it also has low rocker, a 14.5 inch nose, a 21.5 inch middle and a 15.5 inch tail, so that makes a big difference. My shortboard before that was 12 inch nose, 19.5 inch middle, 13.5 inch tail, and lots of rocker. That board needed a title wave for me to perform. So, it makes a big difference in everything you do.
But hitting the lip vertically, for me, isn’t happening. I am more down the line and cutback. I’d like to surf in the pocket, but I don’t.
Oh, come on. You guys know darn well that tail shape is a leading component in a boards’ performance. Okay, maybe “shape” is the wrong word here. You’re really talking about width. And I’m not just talking about that one silly measurement a foot up from the tail, I’m talking that whole thing. You take a big, fat fish swallow tail – 12" at the tips --and fill it in to be square and let me know how little difference there is in the ride. Then, take a jig saw and cut a sleek, sexy little pintail out of it. Completely different board.
Now, if you’re talking about those swallow tails that look like they took a 4" wide squash and just notched it, then yeah, that really doesn’t do anything for you, but every 1/4" of outline width (everywhere, not just a foot up…) has a major affect on speed and control.
i don’t think a swallowtail is all that good for small surf, i think a ‘wide tail’ on a longboard or shorty is the main key to capturing the waves energy at takeoff during slow moving swells. Lately some local rippers I’ve seen are using wide swallowtail outlines without the swallow cutout, making them wide squaretails. Swallows are sexier but if you fill in the swallow vee it would be the same, the ocean does’t recognize the cutout swallow!! Wide Squares are fine with me, that swallow takes me extra shaping time as well as the laminator and sander!! I ride them anyway to be sexy(can’t lie!!)
I agree with what you say. Swallow tails and square tails are very simmilar except that the swallowtail cuts down on tail planing surface and I have heard this is the reason for them rather than just using squares. But what the effect of having less planing area in the tail is I don’t know. Perhapse less drag is the reason?
I think its the width of the tail that matters for small surf. I also think the swallow will ride different than a fat square of the same width. The swallow will have more bite and a little easier to snap, where as the fat square will have a hair more drive and be tougher to push around…but as far as looks ,the swallow rules…peace and waves…
Sean W.
makes sense. Less volume and planing surface in the tail(swallow) will make the board ride lower in the water, providing more bite.
By taking volume and planing surface out of the tail does that make you surf further forward on your board?
have you ever considered that surfing “speed” is not a true sense? what i mean is while one board will feel faster then the other, they are going the same speed.
I was just researching swallows when I saw the above statement. I can say from my own experience that different boards definately go different speeds. I have a 9’1" fun gun that has megga nose rocker and fat rails that is way slower than my 9’1" gunny longboard that has thin rails and much less rocker. I can make sections on my longboard that I can never make on the fun gun. Since I never surf giant waves, I’m not concerned with stability. In my opinion, the best board you can make is the fastest board possible that you can still turn with ease.
I have beach break guns and reef guns from7’6" to 11’2".They are totally different beasts.
One of my longboard guns goes so fast the wave seems to slow down.When I jump off at the end of a wave and bounce three times then I can feel the speed. I have seen guys try to surf pipe guns at my beach break.I have traded boards with them and the feed back that I got was that my board was 50% faster. They paddle in well and control speed but don’t make the sections.Mav-guns have more rocker and are 93/4"-11.5"pin tails,OB guns 12"-14"pin tails.I like a fat squash in small surf and a swallow in overhead surf.Take a squash surfboard and cut a swallow in it and you have less surface area.
The AI flyer is a squash for small waves and the flyer2 is a swallow made for bigger surf.
Ian
Wky not buy a GPS and test 2 similar boards? Or if you want a more scientific approach, how about a tank test? Controlled water flow, unweighted boards and just measure the vertical drag/resistance of each unweighted ( or weighted) board at a series of speeds? ( 1 \ 5 \ 10 m/s )
All tested with a standard fin for each type of board as well as finless.
Stick that info on boards for sale like fuel economy stickers?
…That’s the theory Balsa.In fact in the early days of the "fish"before it was commonly called that, we called them “twin fin/twin pins”.And “swallows”(single fin)were called, “twin pins”…sound about right,Yeah?
We called then “twin spins” for obvious reasons
[In my opinion, the best board you can make is the fastest board possible that you can still turn with ease. ]
Sounds like a 5 fin Bonzer to me 
good question !
And one I ask often .
Especially when I have SO much fun on a wide , square tailed board in small surf. And on mals , too, when it is waist high and under .
Horses for courses.
Just go with whatever YOU enjoy riding the most , in YOUR waves , for YOUR style of surfing …
cheers
ben