couple of months ago I got my first swallow tail and it’s already my favorite. They seem plane earlier and I can go vertical with it easier than my other boards (especially the one with a winged outline). I don’t really remember the last time we’ve had overhead waves but even then it seemed like the board was fine albeit going backside late I do remember it being too squirrelly and skipping though that was still fun. I’ve seen very few big waves as swallows as most pin. Do they not work for bigger waves (big to me is 1 1/2 OH)?
The actual tail shape is no more important than the rocker, the width, the tail width, the hardness of the rails, the fin config and sizing, the bottom contour, the weight distribution, the profile, and any # of other specs that are just as important as the swallow tail itself.
You just happen to try a small wave design swallow tail. If you tried a squash tail small wave design, you’d rave about it also.
Fish just happens to be the “IN” boardshape right now, so you’re on the bandwagon.
Yeah LEE pretty much nailed it. The shape of your tail doesnt make a lick of difference on how early your board planes. More likely is the flatter entry rocker that helps you plane faster.
doesn’t a swallow tail usually have more surface area relative to other tails (they are almost always wider no)?
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Do they not work for bigger waves (big to me is 1.5 OH)?
Dang! 1 and a half foot surf is big? OHIO? lake Erie? Wow! 
I dig swallow tails and wings too…you know you could be just experiencing mass swallow tail hysteria…
Swallow tails are supposedly the fastest tail shape, that is why a lot of small wave boards use them. Basically the cleaner the board releases water the faster the board will go. Swallow tails and square tails should be the fastest, pin tails the slowest. As stated in above posts, tail shape is a just a part of a board there are many other factors.
As for planning earlier, that has little to do with tail shape, more to do with rocker, foil and outline.
Going vertical easier is probably because you have more speed to work with.
Generally swallow tails arn’t used for big waves because they are too fast, you wouldn’t be able to controll it and even if you were able to stay on you would skip out to far in front of the wave. Though I like to take my small wave swallow out in big stormy surf, when there are big peaks but they don’t quite fully break on the outside. So you have easy take offs with big slow faces to set up for gnarly inside sections and you have a small fast board under your feet, nothing better.
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he stated 1,5 o.h.(overhead)doesn’t sound like fla.
Quote:Do they not work for bigger waves (big to me is 1.5 OH)?
Dang! 1 and a half foot surf is big? OHIO? lake Erie? Wow!
I dig swallow tails and wings too…you know you could be just experiencing mass swallow tail hysteria…
Swallow tails have been used in big waves for years. Look at MR, Simon Anderson, and Ben Aipa to name a few. Swallows were never designed to be a small wave tail shape only. To say a swallow and a squash tail are the two fastest when they do completely different things seems like a contradiction. I would say that the tip of the tail whether swallow or anyother has less to do with the performance than do the width, outline, rocker, rail shape or thickness. For the most part in most condidtions it is nothing more than decoration. Wings are almost the same. Many shapers use rail curve to do what wings were supposed to. As someone said, swallows are simply in vouge at the moment.
most surfers attribute performance differences to the first noticable design difference…
there it is again…
regards
BERT
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Quote:Quote:Do they not work for bigger waves (big to me is 1.5 OH)?
Dang! 1 and a half foot surf is big? OHIO? lake Erie? Wow!
I dig swallow tails and wings too…you know you could be just experiencing mass swallow tail hysteria…
he stated 1,5 o.h.(overhead)doesn’t sound like fla.
Greg…I knew what he ment…I was just trying to be funny…
90% mental+10% physical=surfing
DANGER+OPPORTUNITY=CRISIS tm.
Herb
The last 16" of a surfboard are the most critical part! And even minute changes in this area make a difference.
Wings are meant to release water and bring the tail in, also they create a sort of pivit point(sometimes). Releasing the water makes the board faster, bringing the tail dim in makes it turn easier. I think they make a big difference compared to my bump squashes.
I didn’t say squashes and swallows were the fastest, or if I did, I meant swallows and squares are the fastest. I haven’t come to a conclution yet on why swallows are better than square tails, but I do know that a swallow makes the tail planing surface smaller while still allowing a wider outline. I’m still experimenting.
I can think of a host of world class shapers who would disagree with you on your observation, but then again: 90% mental 10% physical = Surfing.
…Can anyone here give a good example of P.O.S.*
…*power of suggestion.Herb
DANGER+OPPORTUNITY=CRISIS tm.
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The actual tail shape is no more important than the rocker, the width, the tail width, the hardness of the rails, the fin config and sizing, the bottom contour, the weight distribution, the profile, and any # of other specs that are just as important as the swallow tail itself.
Correct Lee…in addition, of all the design elements, planning area and fins (and fin placement) have the most impact…of these two, for small waves, gotta go with planning area. Most swallows in the market are being used on wider tailed fishes. The notch of a swallow helps the rear end of the board to engage the wave face a bit more but likely not noticeable if all other variables remained constant.
Herb, Solo: Gotta take exception to the 90%/10% mental/physical conclusion. If this were true we’d all be legends in others’ minds, as well as our own. True excellence in athletic endeavors is weighted significantly toward the physical. Motivation/desire is necessary, but it’s a lesser, included trait. In isolation it’s insufficient, just as it is in every pursuit.
That statement is based on the idea that most of us have the “physical” part thing down, so what’s left is the “mental”.
I agree with that for sure, as I always am in the worst shape of my peers, but never have problems once in the water.
The few days I’m phyically superior (which prolly never happenned), I can do no wrong.
Now if you’re fat, out of shape, can’t move your body around, the phyiscal does indeed play a BIG part of the equation.
Interesting…can’t say that I’ve observed that most surfers have the physical part down to the point of true excellence. Functional competence…maybe. Swaylockians, however, ARE exceptional, and you may be correct.
I agree with that surfing is 90 percent mental if not more. So the conclusion is that it dox
have you ever considered that surfing “speed” is not a true sense? what i mean is while one board will feel faster then the other, they are going the same speed. i have a few favorite boards, fish, twin fins, single fins. the twin fin feels faster then all the others, but i believe that is only because it is such a loose quik turning board, it is fast and responsive from the get go. i have had two boards out at the same time, both me and a friend trading off, and the same waves that i could barely make on the twin fin were barely makeable on the fish. about every 5th session i swear to myself that i had reached a new top speed, faster then ever, and on different boards usually. maybe im completely wrong, but i firmly believe surfing speed is a trick of the senses that fools you into believing one board is faster due to the way it reacts.
asking why swallow tails are better for speed is like asking why loose trucks are good for speed, they’re not. a loose skateboard is no faster then a board set up for bombing hills, and does not handle the speed any better, but does give you that fast sensation at slower speeds then a very stiff board.