I think matching “standard” rockers with some of these alternative shapes can be a big PITA.
According to the U.S. Blanks catalog the standard rocker for that blank has 4.5" of nose rocker and almost 2" of tail rocker. I do shortboards with that kind of rocker. To be honest, I think that’s too much tail rocker at that length for the bonzer-type designs, too much rocker at both ends for the Velo and it’s a bit more nose rocker than I would use for a skinny quad fish at that length (but not by much).
I’ve used an EPS version of that blank to do fishes and Biscuit-type shapes in the mid-5ft range. That nets final nose/tail rocker numbers of 3.25" and 1.5" or so, respectively. My favorite fish is a 5-5 x 21 from that blank with 17" at the nose and tail and a 3" swallow that enabled me to mount the fins closer to the tail (@ 5"). That’s the board I use with a small keel + twinzer leader. Favorite fish ever. Of the Biscuit shapes I did I liked the quad versions better than the thrusters.
You could also try a White Pony style board in that low to mid-5ft length with a hull-ish entry. You could cut the Octafish by a few inches. I’ve always wanted to try an ACE-style Zinger (high aspect twins with bonzer runners and concaves).
For the singlefin shapes I’ve done a couple double-ender shapes with the rear point back behind center - kinda piggy. For that type of surfing that layout has been phenomonal for me. I did a 6-0 shape with a McCoy-style round tail at 17.5" and a hull shaped nose with light belly at 17", but it’s only 20.5" wide so the planshape is a bit parallel - that board turns from the tail on a dime. Very pivoty in the pocket but it still trims nicely too. I’m doing a 6-4 version of that shape for a (middle aged) friend of mine right now - but I’m setting that one up as a quad. For your blank you might go a little wider all the way around on that shape to retain the volume, albeit still in the mid-5ft range.
Thaks Gdaddy. I’ve though about the possibility of trying to flatten the natural rocker on that blank, but I think that that could cause me more problems than it’s worth. I’ve also thought about a mini Simmons shape but I feel those boards may be too quirky -although I’ve never ridden one.
I didn’t realize that the bonzers were supposed to have low tail rockers.
A friend here in town has a 5’5" Larry Mabile keel from the series they did with that Aussie guy who did Litmus. That may be a good outline to copy. I’m intreagued by the keel fish but I’m a goofy footer and most of our waves are right hand points and not sure if a keel is a bad idea. then again I’ve been riding my 6’6" Tim Stamps Hull going backside and have had success so maybe it’s just bias.
The bottom line is that I have this blank and I wanna make something interesting that I can’t get in a shop. So something flat, short and wide seems to me the best bet. Fin configuration is up for grabs.
How do the mini-Simmons compare to a similar size Lis style fish in the ride characteristics? I’ve never ridden either board.
I rode a Larry Mabile Ghostbuster/Simm a couple weeks back. Traded with a guy out in the water. That board had a twinzer setup with the high aspect fins. I like short stubby fishes and I like twinzers, but I have to say that surfing that particular combo didn’t come naturally to me. It’s probably an acquired taste. The float and paddle on that board was okay but I didn’t feel like I had enough rail and I’m used to having a little more drive from the keel+twinzer setup on my fishie. My perception is that the Simms are more about pivoting ff the tail and less about carving off the rail, although I may be completely off based about that.
What I like about his White Pony layout is that it has more curve in the template and the tail comes down to a more managable width. I used some curve and the shallower swallow on my fish and I love it. My template is a little more similar to how Zippi does his fishes, a little more curve in the back half and a slightly narrower tail - I think mine comes down to 11" tip-to-tip off a 17" width @ 12".
Stamps does a short quad stubby that’s more performance oriented. He calls it the “WTF”. It looks kinda like a bodyboard with the more squared off nose and shallow moon tail. I think he uses a more modern bottom/rail layout. I’d like to try something like that someday.
I’d do short, thick wide stinger with full beveled rails (slippey slidey), center box with probox sidebites…red with yellow and orange flames coming off the nose…then I’d try to channel the young Buttons spirit of wave riding…
at the moment, I am frustrated with not getting enough speed on my shortboards ( all finned boards really ) after riding mostly finless stuff for recent months...having trouble with how slow and dull it is feeling, so I'd be looking at making a super fast small wave demon..maybe a semi-fishy hybrid with depp concaves, quad, bit of tail kick and super light.....maybe a modified Fat-Bat built for speed.....
Madprofessor, you already startn a new board, awsome! Me and a buddy both have/had Larry Mabile Keel fish from Kane Garden. Mine was a 6'2 pu/pe w/ glassed on wood keels.It was sick for mushy lefthanders ( i'm goofy), but i had a hell of a time riding it on any rights. Much preferred a thruster setup, and ended up selling the board. My buddy though rides his in everything from slop to steep 6'+ ( almost all lefts, and he's regular) and absolutely loves it. His is a 6' eps/epoxy w/ more performance style keels though. My suggestion would be to try riding your friends board and see what you think. Good luck!
he sparky -not startin yet but I got all the materials. gonna wait till it warms up so I can glass it with some airflow. I’m really leaning towards a fish design at the moment. you’re right. I’l see if my buddy will loan me his 5’6" Mabile keel.
he sparky -not startin yet but I got all the materials. gonna wait till it warms up so I can glass it with some airflow. I’m really leaning towards a fish design at the moment. you’re right. I’l see if my buddy will loan me his 5’6" Mabile keel.
I used the 510RP for my first board and made a 5’10" modern thruster egg. As a one board quiver idea, the rocker and outline worked okay for me but then I realized I don’t really like “compromise” boards. I also started shaping so I can have more boards ; ). That said, if I were to do it over with that blank, I’d probably do a more shortboardy shape if I wanted to make a board 5’8"+, hi-per egg/fish from 5’4"-5’7", retro 5’3" and under.
Since you asked about a keel vs. MiniSim and mentioned Stamps, I can chime in since I’ve had a Stamps MiniSim at 5’2" x 23" and compared to a keel fish it was way more stable and like Gdad said, more pivot off the fins. Really fast, easy to ride frontside and backside - effortless is the best way to describe. I’ve also ridden my friend’s 5’0" x 22.5" WTF and the board is alot of fun also. Both the WTF and MiniSim felt like skateboards under the feet but the WTF a little moreso. It doesn’t have the hull entry and it’s a quad, it just felt like it wants to be thrown around more rather than the flow of the MiniSim. Not as much flow as a fish though, more skate. Both were really light as well compared to the traditional fish I’ve had at 5’6". I also find that at slow speed the MiniSim goes better and starts to get squirrely at higher speeds and the reverse for the keel fish. Just my observations. YMMV.
damn you know what’s funny about the stinger? I already have a masonite template. I blended a Patterson devil fish with a CI Warp winged tail when I was thinking about making an Octafish. the problem was that the wing seemed too far up for the bonzer fin placement - I think the wing was at about 12" from the tips. where would you put the side bites on something like that? would you just do it like a traditional 2+1?
and do you measure the placement for the center box from the tips or from the swallow crack?
rad. I think this may be the way to go. I keep the forward wide point and built in speed of the fish. the flow of the single fin. and I get to make something I couldn’t get around here otherwise.
Well I’m getting closer but still not sure. It will be a quad fish that’s for sure.[img_assist|nid=1057882|title=fish templates|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=640|height=427] Below are my two masonite templates that I’ve made for this next build. The longer narrower one is from a Timmy Patterson Devil Fish. It’s about 5’9". I changed the nose a little at the tip and also put in a cury crack since the board I took the template from had the real angular jet tail. The bottom of the Devil Fish board is the standard performance single to double with Vee through the fins. It’s set up as a twin.
The shorter wider template on the right is a 5’6" Larry Mabile keel from the Swift Movement label with glasson Gephart fins. It has a slight belly in the first 8" of the nose then a slight (1/8") single concave all he way out through the back. No Vee and a tucked rail from the middle chaning to a hard edge in front of the fins and on back.
[img_assist|nid=1057883|title=templates2|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=427|height=640]Here’s a another view. At the moment I’m leaning towards the 5’6". I can make it work with 3.5" of nose rocker and less than 2" of tail rocker with the 5’10" RP blank. I will also make it a quad since I have a set of Futures Controller fins that I love. I’m just not sure about the bottom shape yet. Should I do shallow single all the way through? Or maybe a single with Vee panels through the fins like how Cher Pendarvis describes the latest Steve Lis board in the Steve Lis article in TSJ Vol. 20.1
Planning the board is as much fun to me as building it. I’ve learned so much about design by taking templates and measuring bottom contours.
I never updated this thread and I just saw it an decided to show you guys what I ended up with.
I’ve been surfing this a lot for 3 or so months. it’s super fast and goes well frontside and backside. I ride point breaks that never get super steep. this thing blows past long sections and only feels quirky once in a while. was going right today in chest to head high waves and doing pretty tight bottom top turns combos with lots of hold.
it seems to pivot really well with the wide tail. rails are similar to a 6’0" CI Flyer I had, slightly rollled entry, single concace to double with vee in the last few inches.
I set the fins 1/2" further back that seemed to be the standard for quad fish. I got the idea to set them farther back after reading the Magic Board article by Andrew Kidman in a recent TSJ. this is one the most easy to ride short boards I’ve had. narrow nose performance thrusters are a pain in the ass most of the time. I’d rather ride more waves.
Your board came out nice. I have to admit I never understood the,‘what would you shape threads.’ I figure everyone would just shape what they wanted to shape. Who cares what anyone else thinks you should shape? If I bought a 5-10 P fish blank I would probably just make another fish. Looks like you made the board you wanted and didn’t follow anyones advice. I think that’s a good thing. And, it came out really good. I really like your foil and outline in a little board like that. A short thick little fucker for speed runs down the point. Mike
