I was wondering what the typical shaper of any skill level would expect in a machine in the $30K-$40K range.
What level of finish, software, hold down mechanism, machine appearance, dust collection, power requirements, etc…
I’m doing some research on this and would appreciate anyones input.
Thanks…
you can build a CNC router for about $5k.
so…show me a $5k price tag in a “shaping machine under $40k” and i’ll buy it.
for $40K…the price of a brand new Ford f-350 4x4 truck, with thousands of more moving parts and thousands more times detailed. I would expect a machine that shapes surfboards via a $5K computer, $5K worth of aluminum, and paying for the $10K software License, to do just about everything except laminate the board.
Now I know the cost of doing basically one off’s is expensive but come on, where the expense in these very basis CNC machines?
I know, I don’t know anything about CNC stuff, but I would think you could get one built for around $18-20K tops?
So what whould I expect? Well I’d expect a dam good machine that would do everything except finish sand for $40K. And if we were talking, and I had enough beer in me, I probably expect it to sand it smooth too…among other things that can’t be mentioned here…if ya know what i mean (V)
I’d want a 5-axis flowjet from these guys…
other than lasers it seems like the future of the CNC business to me…
Greg Loehr told and interesting fable here years ago but it involved walk into your local surf craft making store
choosing a basic board design/graphics package and refining it based on just answering some questions
then having you board pop-out of the “machine” finished in an hour like 1-hour photo mart.
here’s the Greg’s post:
http://www.swaylocks.com/forum/gforum.cgi?post=117961;search_string=loehr;guest=11038846#117961
I see this coming too the technology get cheaper every year, it’ll just take someone with the greed…
Future Technology
Its a new era in surfboard construction. e just visited the new Ron Jon custom surfboard production facility located directly behind their Cocoa Beach shop. Its a totally new method of producing boards in a more efficient and more environmentally safe way. It works like this. When you order your board you order from a computer terminal one of a vast variety of shapes available from many of todays top shaper/designers. All the shapes are pre-scaned into the computer and held in memory on the hard disk or CD. Once you have made your selection a technician clamps a correct size closed cell polystyrene “e-cell” blank (which is produced on premises using a laser preshape machine) and your board is shaped by computer as you watch from behind a viewing window. The shape is computer perfect and takes just 15 minutes to finish. After the shape is completed, fin boxes are installed (the holes are actually cut and the fin angles set during the shaping process to the designer’s specs) using a hot epoxy glue which sets almost immediately. The blank is then sprayed with a light coating of spray contact cement and an epoxy “prepreg” cloth is set into place. Prepreg cloth is cloth with a very high viscosity resin already saturated into the fibers. This resin is such high viscosity that it is essentially dry. The whole thing is then covered with a shrink wrap bag and placed into an oven. The ovens heat “melts” the resin in the prepreg, which saturates the fibers, sets the resin while the shrink wrap pulls the whole package together. After 30 minutes in the oven the now nearly finished board is pulled out and allowed to cool. Next the shrink wrap is cut off, fin boxes are trimmed and detailed, fins installed and your new board is complete and ready to ride. Start to finish production time…90 minutes. Environmentally all the polystyrene foam scrap is recyclable, there is no excess resin used when using prepregs and the prepreg epoxy is solvent free so there are no emissions from the glassing process. Even the removable fins are recyclable. The whole board is produced almost waste and emission free. Quite a difference from todays standard board. Now before you go running off to Ron Jon to order your new high tech magic shooter there is something you should know. The date for the opening of this board building facility is sometime in the future. You see, I made this up. But here’s something to think about. All the materials and techniques that I have written about above are available today. The foam I talked about is presently being produced right here in the US. The laser preshape machines are in existence right now. Todays shaping machines are not quite as advanced as written above but probably will be within a few years. Spray adhesives, prepreg cloth, shrink wrap and hot epoxy glues are all widely available. So why doesn’t this process really exist? B ecause it will take thousands of dollars to develop these ideas beyond the idea stage. But this process, or one similar to it, will exist someday so get your money ready.
For that price now I’d expect the complete package; Single router machines are fine for most shops doing in-house production. A heavy duty enough spindle motor and frame to cut strigers and run 60 to 80 hours per week. A fully nuematic, lockable, adjustable, heavy duty holding and centering system like a KKL machine with spares and parts available for servicing. A controller with a digital scanner and compatible software for CAD, yes a scanner, any machine for that price should include full 100% scanning capabilities. Dust collection, vacuum pumps, and air delivery wouldn’t really need to be included, that stuff is cheap and easy to install, although a dust collecting scoop that fits around the spidle/router with a 4" or 5" hose attachment would be nice.
The last and most important thing that should be included in any CNC machine purchase would be factory support; come out and drop the machine on the ground, plug it in, and cut an exact, accurate board in one day to prove it works. If you can do all that for $30,000 I’ll buy one.
Byron
SOLD!!!
Thanks for the replies.
Thats a lot for 30K, a shopbot alpha that will cut an 11 foot board is 19K with out a router, cutter head, vac hold down, shape 3d etc. There are other cheaper kits but it still adds up really fast.
But I agree with you, we’ll see what happens.
Thanks again.
Longtungliclo,
Thank you for interesting picture of Chairman Mao with his surfboard machine. However, there is one problem; Mao Tsa Tung don’t surf 
Byron
I know, I don’t know anything about CNC stuff, but I would think you could get one built for around $18-20K tops?
A new shopbot cost less than $10K. However you seem to get what you pay for.
Thanks for the replies.
Thats a lot for 30K, a shopbot alpha that will cut an 11 foot board is 19K with out a router, cutter head, vac hold down, shape 3d etc. There are other cheaper kits but it still adds up really fast.
But I agree with you, we’ll see what happens.
Thanks again.
the kmsystemes (www.kmsystemes.com) cost €30000 which is in the price range, I guess the Brazilian machines (shopbot mod(DSD?) and others) are as well.
3DM machine (www.surfboardshapingmachine.com) cost $80K… Why so expensive?
KKL don’t know.
APS3000 (www.aps3000miki.com) cost $70000 or something like that
Not much to choose from on a tight budget.
Mao do surf! He Big Kahuna of China!!
How much do you think that the Inventor should put on top of all these features as his own re compensation for the time and money spent on research? How much do you think a machine with a decent motion control system costs, excluding profits? How much per cent do you put on top of the cost of most boards you build?
For that price now I’d expect the complete package; Single router machines are fine for most shops doing in-house production. A heavy duty enough spindle motor and frame to cut strigers and run 60 to 80 hours per week. A fully nuematic, lockable, adjustable, heavy duty holding and centering system like a KKL machine with spares and parts available for servicing. A controller with a digital scanner and compatible software for CAD, yes a scanner, any machine for that price should include full 100% scanning capabilities. Dust collection, vacuum pumps, and air delivery wouldn’t really need to be included, that stuff is cheap and easy to install, although a dust collecting scoop that fits around the spidle/router with a 4" or 5" hose attachment would be nice.
The last and most important thing that should be included in any CNC machine purchase would be factory support; come out and drop the machine on the ground, plug it in, and cut an exact, accurate board in one day to prove it works. If you can do all that for $30,000 I’ll buy one.
Byron
Good on ya. Somehow I don’t think the president of the USA surfs.
Tom Curren for president!
The flow machines would be unreal. Only issue is that you need to dump the toxic water somewhere and I think they run 200-250k… They are most likely better off cutting custom parts for the OCC guys who have a product that starts at 80k. I always wondered if they could make a synthetic plasma that would replace water. Their is a company that uses this synthetic plasma to mist blade servers… Think they call themselves liquid cool. It sprays a synthetic mist that can be recycled and wont short the power hungry blades…makes DC’s utilize less power and traditional cooling…Maybe this could be used to help keep the foam dry?
Chico,
We’re not talking about compensating the inventor of the CNC milling machine, what we are talking about is what a customer would expect from a manufacturer of a complete CNC machine specific to surfboards. As far as industry pricing you have Motion Masters with $80,000 to $120,000 machines and at the other end of the spectrum ShopBot builds $8,000 to $12,000 machines. Frames and tables are done in pre-tooled sizes for production efficiency, volume and competition brings the price down. PC based controllers save thousands, as does the higher volume of sales in CAD software. Everything envolved in CNC machine building is coming down in cost. I only make about a 75% mark-up on surfboards, it works because I have an efficient process and facility and do a high enough volume to make it worthwhile, CNC machine builders for surfboards will have to do the same.
Byron
Longtungliclo,
Thank you for picture of Chairman.
Unfortunately I’m remembering the words of John Lennon;
"If you go posting pictures of Chairman Mao,
You aint gonna make it with anyone anyhow…"
Byron
How much do you reckon is the cost of a good machine? a kkl for example. With all included… PC, CAM application, controller, servos and drivers and the machine itself.
Mao Zedong good friend of John Lennin. He number 5 beetle!!
Contact KKL directly and find out what they sell their Surfboard CNC set-ups for. They have different configurations of equipment that vary the cost greatly depending on your budget and if you want digital scanning capability or you pay KKL individually to scan your boards. KKL has the most experience and the best holding and centering system.
Byron
Longtungliclo have good photoshop skills. Too bad not used for something relevant. Chairman Mao would be disappointed Lungtungliclo not productive for general good, only message board troll
Byron