Two months ago I placed a $150 deposit w/ a shaper who frequents this forum. Due to job related circumstances, I asked for a partial refund of my money.
The “consultation” stage never got past the exchange of half a dozen e-mails during which I was directing what type of board I wanted. The point being, there was never any “expert” advice or questions asked on the part of the shaper in an effort to find out what direction the board design should take.
In addition, a blank was never ordered and the intial waiting time of 2-3 months looked to be snowballing into at least a 3-4 month wait. (note to shapers - under promise & over deliver, not the other way around).
My question is this - based on the time invested by the shaper (less than an hour) is it reasonable to expect more than a 50% refund?
I’d think a full refund of your deposit would be in order. I mean if a customer is happy he’ll return so getting back $150 with little or no time invested isn’t a big stretch especially if you get it back you’d be telling other people what an cool guy he was.
With no materials ordered and no real time involved, I would expect 100% returned. The only kicker on that would be if you were made aware up front, preferably in writing but verbal if that’s all you got, that a deposit was non-refundable under any circumstances- which would have been a warning sign to me.
That’s just basic good small business practice. Anybody not willing to do that minimum ought to start seriously worrying about Chinese boards.
For the record, there was never any verbal or written information exhanged about his policy concerning deposits.
I started out asking for $125 of the $150, since I figured he had invested about an hours time in e-mail correspondence ($25/ hour for typing e-mails is more than fair). After that request, I didn’t hear a peep for nearly two weeks…so I e-mailed him again to politely suggest we clear up the matter and move on. At that point, he said $75 seems fair to him. I graciously offered to meet him halfway and told him to send me $100 and I’m cool with it. So far, no reply from Mr. Shaper.
Howzit stumpy, You should get all of your deposit back. I have a problem with the 2 to 3 or 4 month waiting time to get a board. I can’t imagine having a board in my shop for over even 3 weeks. Was a time when you got your new custom ordered board in under 3 weeks from the time it was ordered. Aloha,Kokua
Depending upon where you live, I assume you had choices regarding who to shape your board. I therefore assume you chose Mr. Shaper based on his reputation and craftsmanship. If the facts are as you’ve stated and there’s no “other side” to the story, I would ask Mr. Shaper to define integrity.
How very rare when someone’s service level actually exceeds expectations. The beauty of the free market system is that you can exclaim with joy the merits of a job well done by someone who’s on their game by referring others to seek him out. On the other hand, you can also let the world know when you’ve been wronged and by whom. Keep us “posted”.
Thanks again to everyone for voicing their opinions.
In my previous post I said the “consultation” was lacking. That is not 100% true. In all fairness to the shaper, he briefly discussed (via e-mail) the pros & cons of different tail shapes so I could choose a blank. But my point is this: it’s not like the guy had any “personalized” design time invested. And he was not stuck with a blank, b/c one was never ordered.
HerbB, your point is well taken. However, last I heard I was still 10 back in the shaping line and this guy does not do his own glass work (more waiting…). Getting the board within the next 30 days is unlikely.
Since I posted this topic, someone PM’ed me saying the same shaper has had his board on order (fully paid for) since August and he has yet to receive it.
I contacted the shaper and told him I expect the full $150. I would’ve accepted $100 last week but he didn’t respond to my offer to settle - his loss.
I’m glad you didn’t take my former post the wrong way - hopefully you and this person will come to a Swalockian compromise. And best of luck with your job situation.
I was going to say to get the board instead of losing $75.00, or getting into a dispute. But when I heard the waiting time was longer than 30 days thats a long wait. If you could get in writing a finish date from him and you agree to it, stay with him to not lose on the deal, plus more time to save the money.
I have a small bus. and go to court every year for someone trying to pull a fast one. What I have learned is to save time and not go to court try to make a deal and get out of there lesson learned. Check references next time to avoid flakes. When you give a deposit get a receipt in writing with the terms of the agreement. Last but not least , $75.00 back is better than nothing, take the money and run if you go to small claims for $75.00 the judge sometimes splits the money due in half. Then you have to collect and thats a whole new story. good luck DR
I’m the slowest right now,Some people have been waiting over a year.
BUT,if any person decides he or she wants there money back,they get it all back 100% right now!I eat the shape,paint,glass,etc.,etc.
Most,in fact all, put up with my delays,and after this group of 6 or 7 boards I’m retiring from building boards for others for awhile.How long ???Maybe forever???Maybe a few years???
At this point it would be easier to just give back the deposits, but there are those that will have nothing else and will wait.They do eventually get 100% of my skills,and heart.Herb
i say full deposit back , depending on the circumsatnces …
i just recently had to give a guy 500 back because i didnt get the board ready in time for a year long trip the guy was doing , even tho i had spent a good amount of time working out what he wanted and the board was started …
there was no other way around it , he deserved his money back , it was my fault and my problem …
on the other hand i did once hold back some money from a guy and returned a portion of his deposit , because i had spent hours working the details of his order , then ordering a custom glued tripple stringer blank , then doing a 140 km round trip to collect the blank … he changed his mind and decided on getting the same board from another shaper, i said i needed my costs covered and hit him 50 bucks …
if something had happened in his life and he genuinely couldnt get the board because of some drama or personal tragedy i would have given all his money back …
i think at the time i was peeved because he changed his mind frivolosly , i was almost offended that what i worked out would suit him best at the time , he just went off to another shaper to get …
ask for whats fair , dont act out of spite or any other bad trait …
If you do exactly what you say you are going to or communicate early on why you cannot. You do not have many problems. If the guy told you he would send you $100.00 and did not do it, he lied. Plain and simple. No more rationalization need be given. If you feel strong about it take him to court. Of course the money could be a good lesson in who to avoid.
If the guy has not put you into his rotation. He either owes you a board within the time he told you or a full deposit. Had he put the board into rotation, he would owe you nothing regardless of your personal circumstances unless he simply felt like being a nice guy. If you were to put an hourly dollar figure on time spent talking to customers about surfboards before they actually order them and pay for them. Most shapers are losing money anyway.
It would be extremely ignorant of me to think that this is a perfect world, that all the people participating in this forum were honest and fair, and that square tail thrusters are the holy grail of the surfboard design universe.
Even if this guy gives you all your money back, which I think he should, the powers that be will take care of everyone in the long run.
You will learn from the experience, and eventually get a board to ride, maybe not from him.
He will learn that losing one order and disatisfying a potential client has challenged the opportunity to grow his business… in the wrong direction.
The underground has eyes and ears and never forgets.
Lately I have hit an apostasy in surfing/surfboard construction.
I might recover,I may never.
I tell everyone up front,“it’s going to be awhile”.then show examples.At what most pay for my boards,it’s a steal concidering the labor and skill they get vs. the $$$ they pay out.
I also tell them I am not a business and direct them to several other surfboard mfg.s to get their wares.Once and awhile these mfg.s will contact me and ask for Superchargers or even how to build a Supercharged fish,etc.,etc.
Basically ,I’m burned out at my level and either need to up the scale,AGAIN…OR tone it down to almost nothing.
No worries I have plenty of projects to keep me prisoner here on this planet for at least 3 life times.Herb
I’m really impressed by the sincerity of the responses I’ve received. Thanks again to everyone for making this a great forum.
Good news - the shaper contacted me to let me know that a full refund of my $150 deposit is on the way.
He was sympathetic to my situation & understood why I’d become frustrated. I wish him the best of luck.
Lots of members PM’ed me to query the name of the shaper - either guessing their identity based on personal experience or stories they’ve heard. Sorry if I didn’t reply to your PM…most people guessed incorrectly and the matter has since been resolved, so I will lay it to rest.
Let’s face it - most of us will never know what its like to be a talented shaper who’s work is in high demand. Trying to balance the tasks of shaping, surfing, running a small business (and having a life outside of that) can’t be easy. We can all be more understanding of each other - thankfully Swaylocks promotes that very thing.