Note: this has been edited as some mistakes prove misleading esp. Surfblanks should read "does NOT" suck up resin......etc.
I'd be really interested in seeing where I stated "the exact opposite" on something regardng different foams. That, in fact may be the case, but I really wonder in what context?
It would be pretty enlightening for me to hear what I said that would lead someone to make a statement like yours when it comes to what I accept as conventional wisdom about foam.
So look it up and please supply it. But the two better have enough CONTEXT around them versus something they'd f-ck somebody in Washington over. Hey, Obama got sh-t for being photographed in Hawai for having his shirt off. What next?
As far as Mean & some of the other guy's views on Clark, Sufing Pro's, sellouts..........I love hearing this stuff. More power to the ruggged individualists, equality to the gay blades and lesbo's that wanna be married, and to the meglomaniacs that have money to burn so they can buy their own fame through surfing magazine ads..........go for it, brand away until you are a deity or demigod.
I don't agree with anyone that Clark was inferior..........to what? To who that could service and supply the American surfing industry with consistent reliable regularity? Walker? Sorry, afraid not? Foss? Uh, they were long gone but the mid 60's or something. Some other generic polyurethane foamer? Nah, not enough money in the surfboard market to attract them.
So with all the HUGE profit involved in making a surfboard, what were we supposed to do? 99% of us weren't big enough or had enough $ to burn to import Burford, or Midget's foam or look into so called superior foams. In the 80's Mitsubishi was rumored to be entering the surfboard foam market and was going to give Clark a run for his money in the states. Whatever happened on that? Does anyone remember the parties promoting Mitsubishi...foam that made it to Hawaii to shape?
I remember Gordon and Smith making their own foam for awhile.......we got these little stringerless popout kneeboads things (that's all they deserve to be called) that I was told they made a double ender blank, cut them into two blanks and machined the things or they were premolded close enough for Mexicans to clean up a little before coloring them and throwing glass on them. They were shiny, and cheap, and people bought them in our shop for Xmas and summer toys for their kids. Maybe they got the idea from Greg Noll doing before most anyone else? I bought rejects from Noll at $10 or $20 a pop before I even had a driver's license.
I felt more kinship to Grubby then I did to G&S. I wonder why?
I like the statement that I could've gotten really good foam if I was just willing to pay more for it. Problem is, whereas money frequently solves a problem if you throw enough at it, in the case of sifting through somewhere between 20 to 50 foam suppliers, you could run out of money, wreck any reputation you ever had for quality, and have to go into rehab or commit suicide in the process of finding the perfect foam.........where IS the Holy Grail?
I think as far as my slant toward Ice Nine.......if there ever was any, it may have to do with attitude from said company.
If a company has a great attitude, and you complain about something, and they immediately rectify it, either by replacing the blank (in this case), or compensating you, or even more importantly, correct the problem from one shipment to the next, then I think you have a promising if not good situation.
That's what I experienced with Ice Nine, but if you look back at my threads you will also see some mention about minor holes, shapeability statements, concerns about sensitivity to heat, amongst other comments. Cane.....an MDI that is/was a whole different animal that you only realize its +'s and -'s after you have used it.
So in the sense that I MAY have steered young, old, rich, poor, black, white, yellow or pink people wrong on this site that are enterprising and hoping to become the next Rusty or Hal Metric........here is my big ass clarification as of today.
I am making a disclaimer here that it MAY not be consistent with what I thought may or may nt have been good in 2008 or 1914.
CLARK FOAM: Shaped the most of and the longest. Was the best servicing company I ever dealt with. Had good foam. It allowed me to get the job done for my surfboard and sailboard customers. Reliable delivery. Good blank selection. Good but not perfect rocker program. Good not great stringer program. Workable strength to weight ratio. Very receptive to feedback even though I wasn't their biggest account by a longshot.
SURFBLANKS: Foam is harder than others tried. Heavy sawing action when shaping similar to old Dow extruded shaped in the 80's. Handshaping it tired me out........use 50 grit. Can tear with planer if attempting fast shaping. Net result good strength to weight ratio after glassing. Painted fine, did NOTsuck up resin. Have not worked exensively with foam, less than 20. Blank catalog has many blanks to choose from, good service based on walking in (they are located near me). New foam has been developed which I will try some to stay up on what is easily available to me.
U.S. BLANKS: Reputed to be the Clark Foam reincarnate. Probably a fair degree of truth in that. (Has been said that Grubby advises them). Similarly designed program. Wood stringer quality and overall program good. Foam shaped easier than Surfblanks. Strength to weight ratio fair to good(I used blue but would like to try their newer red). Great blank selection to choose from. Availability- within 30 miles at Fiberglass Hawaii.....price, a bit more than what I want to pay. Painted fine, glassed fine.
ICE NINE: CANE MDI, initial pours yielded blanks with some holes in them. Foam grainy. Tearing at high planer speeds using planer with sharp blades. Sensitive to heat. Limited selection of blanks, but impoving. Some denting while glassing although foam felt hard shaping. I revamped my glassing racks and made some adjustments in glassing configs. I don't believe the denting was my problem however. I had a couple blanks that experienced random patterns of yellowing; may have been due to improper mix of UV resin or something to do with the foam, not sure and could not and did not report this on Sway's as it was inconclusive and wholly different yellowing experienced with HB.
MOWSES: Walker PU formulation thru Ice Nine's pouring equipment. First test blanks supplied had holes bu where given to me to test shape with the understanding that they were a first pour test blanks and weren't intended to be a finish product. Foam shaped unbelieveably easy, no tearing even at my highest planer passes. Sanded exceptionally well, painted hardlines excellent. Very 'sugary' as others had described Walker's Foam, of which I had never used. Next shipment of Mowses had no holes, still excellent shaping, painting and glassed out very light and strong. Test rider loved ride characteristics.
HOMELOWN: Shaped similar to Surfblanks. Harder foam, but experienced denting on bottoms where I thinned the blank from. One of three initial loongboard blanks gassed severly on bottom of nose. I applied resin cheater coat and it still gassed. I stripped it again and tried Bondo as a barrier coat, then reglassed and it gassed through the Bondo. I still have the board sitting around......just ate it on that one. The other two intial blanks looked fine. Another longboard blank yellowed before sending to an account on the East Coast. Yellowing not similar to random yellowing experienced with two Canes. Some shortboards netted good strength to weight ratios, others were reported to have their bottoms denting easily. I felt like I was playing Russian Roulette using these. Good service, good attitude, problem foam. Only denting problem was on a few bottoms were bulk of planer passes were done.....but not more than I would do on a Clark or any other blank.
EPS: some 1.5 lb from Barfoot (local source).....very much like EPS of the 80's that I used extensively. Beads soft, tears out easily, crumbly, need to seal. I seald this foam with epoxy/q cell slurry. Netted a light strong product. He cut blank from a Clark reference for familiarity & shaping ease and the price was good. Nice to be able to index foam for thickness desired.
EPS: 2 lb. Virgin EPS acqired from Surfding in his downsizing. Harder bead, tighter fusion, good shaping but will tear or chunk out if really pushed or using coarse grit. Doesn't require sealing if finished well. Very good strength to weight ratio on lightweight glassing configs (4/4). Currently stringering my own with some new materials I don't want to mention here.
EPS: White Hot Foam: True 2 lb. vac formed EPS from their Surf Specific formula. Beads are tightest of the 3. Beads are hardest of the 3. Foam is most consitent of the 3. Have yet to glass but will not require sealing. Stringer was excellent quality. Good price.Good service available witin 30 miles of home with possible delivery with reasonable order. Have not glassed yet but expect good results. Blank I got had inherently poor distribution for what I want. NOt sure who designed it but I wonder what they were thinking? I'm supplying all my own foil & rocker profiles.....
My overall assessment today: Mowses works for me, I like everything about it. U.S. Blanks work but I'm paying more than I want for them. Surfblanks, the foam tired me out handhaping it, but they have new foam for me to try, which I am always willing to do. (That includes HB). Ice Nine Cane: I'm done with Cane. I don't know what happened on the yellowing but haven't had a problem since I've changed to Mowses. Plus the Mowses seems stronger for the same glassig configs. Also I forgot to mention that I didn't like the results I got with tinting Cane....apparently others don't have this problem.
EPS: I have several hundred 2 lb virgin EPS blanks to play with and have no problem using the stuff. I am doing stringerless, center stringers, and will play with parabolics and other suff with these. I didn't get longboard blanks in the deal and will use the White Hot EPS for those boards that aren't PU's. I wanted to, but never got try Just Foam, Blair, Austin and Warvel Foam. For now I'm happy with what I'm using and unless someone goes out of business that I'm relying on, I won't spin my wheels over foam.
That's pretty much were I'm at. After this maybe I won't share anything I learn in the future as this is such a MONKEY SEE, MONKEY DO business that I have shared past experiences and will keep the rest of what I now develop to myself. I was consdiered leading edge back in the 80's with a great attitude. Maybe your posts and criticism has enlightened me to the nature of people and any of the new revelations I'm currently working on should just be kept in house to myself.