I'm trying to get some feedback on what people think about alaias. It seems like the general concensus is that these things are tough to ride, paddle poorly and can be very frustraiting. Are they hard to find? Are they overpriced? Is the quality substandard? What kind of qualities would you like see improved in the current alaias on the market? Is the risk too high to invest in one? The reason I ask is I run Xylem Surfboards and I make/sell alaias and paipos and want to understand what others really feel about this type of surfcraft. Maybe you could advise others on your expirience too. Ask me questions if you have them!
FWIW I've been surfing since the 60's and a casual student of board design for as long. Neck problems forced me into the prone position almost 10 years ago.
I've been kipapa surfing a homemade 5'5" X 15" paulownia alaia as my daily ride for nearly three years. It's the second one I've made. I got into them after talking at length with Tom Wegener at Sacred Craft a few years ago.
Most alaia I've seen on the commercial market are overpriced; some are way overpriced.
Unless you are a young and very strong paddler or an old fart who is SUPER FIT and a very strong paddler, a proper sized wood alaia will be a serious struggle at the beginning but it might be worth the extra effort if you are really into haulin' ass. It's certainly a totally different feeling.
I ride prone using UDT's and it still took me 6 months to get it figured out, but once I did I was totally hooked.
The few younger guys I know who are riding alaia standup are just as stoked on them as I am.
The older I get, the more I realize just how much the old Hawaiians knew when it came to any sort of water craft.
Here's some local alaia riders. Only one of these boards was not home built. I'm the guy in the hat on the left with the smallest board.
You make and sell them and are asking these questions? Do you ride them?
Totally over priced for a piece of wood you can make yourself. A wooden paipo can be made from 2’ x 4’ a piece of 1/2" plywood. We did that for many years. I’ve made 3 Alaia’s so far all cost me less than $30 for the wood. I used re-cycled redwood, and one was pine. Covered one with resin, the other 2 had oil. Never surfed them, donated them for fund raising events.
Hello xylem, good on yer for being up front about your interest as a retailer. You're new here, so I'll just state the obvious, in case you might have missed it: this is a forum for surfboard builders.
We buy boards, sometimes, obviously, but more than anything we make surfboards. So therefore not your typical surfboard consumer. If anyone here's gonna "invest" in an alaia, most likely they'll invest the time and materials to make one, less likely they would purchase one retail. Just saying.
Myself, at age 56, I can't hardly ride a hpsb, so an alaia is kinda out of the question for me. I like watching videos of Rasta and Machado on 'em tho!
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btw unclegrumpy - thats a nice photo, and a nice looking group! I love how surfing bridges any generation gaps.
There's no one in the photo that weighs more than 200. The guy in the red shorts with the longest board is the biggest guy with the biggest board. Normal people want to surf. Looks like the photo was taken at San Onfre. If a normal person between 150 and 200 paddled out at SanO with one of those boards what would happen? No waves for you pal. Have you ever surfed SanO? Total waste of time on a small board......
If a supper fit PRO KID paddles out....well.... that's not a normal person....and I've seen 115 pound kids rip on those crazy boards......But your average person at the beach cannot standupsurf on an Alaias and has very little interest in one....Most people I know don't even know what you are talking about. The general public would say "neat" , "nice woodwork", and then grab the longboard and go surfing..................and you want to sell them in a recession? Go For It!
Stingray
Sure, I hear you. You're right, these boards are humbling to just about anyone who paddles one out, let alone ride waves on them. These boards definately pose the question," So, you think you can surf? Try this." I think at some point in our surfing lives we may get kinda bored with it and seek out a bigger challenge weather it's a trip to Hawaii or just a different board. The boards are great for those seeking a bigger challenge and are ready to do something out of the ordinary.
Recession or not, I won't stop offering what I do for others just cause there's no money in it (trust me!). It's simply not about all that for me. I make these boards because I enjoy them and simply want to share what I enjoy. Thanks for your comments.
I'm 32, 6', and 165-170 lbs and I love alais. I am pretty fit and an above average surfer but by no means a Pro or close to it. I made my first alaia out of a $30 piece of laminated pine from Home Depot. I stood up and trimmed to the beach on my first wave and was hooked. From what I hear, and what I've witnessed, it is not normal to stand up and trim on your first wave. I have since made 3 alaias from paulownia blanks, the first blank from Patagonia and WAY overpriced as it came from Tom Wegener in Oz. I now get the blanks from a different source but they are still $100+ per blank. In my opinion paulownia is far and away the best wood to make these boards from, although I haven't ridden a redwood alaia yet so I can't speak from experience on that. They are pretty easy to shape, and unlike a foam surfboard I can make an alaia that is almost as good as a Wegener alaia, at leat in my opinion. But I'm light years away from making a foam board as good as my favorite shaper can do it. Therein lies the difference. I love the glide on alaias, more like snowboarding in powder than surfing, and will always have one in my quiver. They don't repalce any other boards, but supplement the stoke of surfing in clean little peelers! Heres a shot of me trimming on a self-shaped 6'6" paulownia alaia at Lobitos in Peru.
seems to me the alaia movement has come and gone.i certainly wouldn't invest any $ in one, unless i built it myself, for myself.
That's great some of you guys have built your own alaias, but most surfers know next to nothing when it comes to shaping. Some people hardly know how to operate a screwdriver, so designing an ancient style board then shaping it is actually a big deal to some folks. That's where they need someone to build them one.
I think that those who labor with their hands know that time and energy simply costs money. You also gotta figure paulownia isn't cheap. Depending on how well an alaia is shaped, the labor surrounding manufacturing even one can get vary wildly. That does depend on if you do it right or just cut out an outline, do some quick sanding and throw a coat of paint on it and go surf. We're talking hours of labor verses minutes. I don't know... glad to meet all of you.
I'm asking all surfers what their opinions are concerning alaias. To have "builders" feedback is also important.
Im just waiting for my beard to grow longer and hair to start knotting up, then i'll try mine. I'll let you know my opinions then. ;)
It is far more fruitful for me to focus on design elements that make my surfing easier.
Of course I ride them! Actually, I ride nothing else! I'm not just some random woodworker who lives in ohio that happens to make surfboards. I design, shape, ride, redesign, ride and sell a few here and there. The R&D is the best part. Call me foolish, but I've actually sold all my fiberglass boards and don't regret it at all. That's how much I enjoy these boards. It feels great leaving all that behind actually. I know I'm an exception though. Different strokes for different folks I guess.
Anybody surf an alaia with a rolled bottom instead of the concave deal everybody is doing these days? That rolled bottom is what the ancient boards had... which is better in your opinion?
Not all the old boards had the rolled bottom.
At the Surfing Heritage Foundation (I volunteer there) we have a VERY large print of this photo (allegedly Ben Aipa's grandfather) from the early 1900's hanging in the office hallway.
With the huge image it becomes quite evident this board has a relatively complex bottom that looks very much like the Bob Simmons boards with a rolled nose and concave in the back.
I've said it before and I'll say it again; The old Hawaiians knew a lot more about watercraft then we give them credit for.
True. I wonder how old that board is...tough to say. Could we even say that that board was an exaple of pure bred alaia? I don't think anyone knows how old that board is. Wasn't that photo taken around 1910 or something? You gotta wonder if that was an authentic board or just someone's rendition of an ancient board. I do know that photo was redone with a different board on a different part of the beach by a tourism photographer way back when. The man was also wearing a different loincloth thing too... I gotta make one of those and go ride my alaia. Ha ha
Consider what existed prior to the European takeover of Hawaii. Consider what followed it. I know surfing was taboo for quite some time and I'm sure that's why there's so few ancient alaias still around. Saying this, I think you have opened the door to what is considered a true Hawaiian alaia. I think the alaias Capt. Cook saw were the real deal but that was back in 1778. After that, who knows. I think its safe to say that a board from 1900 would have been pretty different from a board made prior to 1778.
I do have to say that almost all of the ancient boards that I've seen had a convex bottom. In my expirience, that concave takes away critical volume and certainly changes the dynamic water flow under the board and around those critical rails.
You're absolutely right about the contributions the Hawaiians have made, those ancient Hawaiians had hundreds of years to perfect their designs in perfect surf. No doubt those early surfers had their designs wired. Overall, it's hard to say exactly how the majority of boards were designed except for those few exapmles that remain. I think we do have some great examples that were all unique in their own right. Even 1000 years ago, each surfer had his own preferences and, as we all know, each board was designed to the rider and local wave.
As far as concave and convex bottoms go, I have gone with the convex bottom because that seems to be the most common attribute found on the remaining ancient alaias and olos and it, in my humble opinion, works really well too. So, I say, "why reinvent the wheel?" cause the right convex bottom is hard to contend with.
Hello Mr Xylem.....at this point you have to get past the sales pitch...talk is cheap....Please post photos of you standup surfing your boards. Please phost photos of your boards.....It's not suffer mag.... we don't care about who is "hip".
and...............oh boy........how many wall hangers do you sell....
We are board builders not boards buyers.....I hope you make a million.....small market for your product....
they look fun. I’d like to try one.
Definately wouldn’t buy one tho
Why would I be giving a sales pitch to other builders? That makes no sense.
My only goal is to get a honest opinion from the general public... good or bad. I know there are drawbacks to these boards, I just wanted to hear if there any more I hadn't considered. Also, if someone is considering making or buying an alaia this info. make help them make a better informed decision. No one likes to be misled right? No one likes to waste their time or money either.
And, if I need to prove myself:
The easiest way to see photos of my boards and me riding my boards is to go my my website: www.xylemsurfboards.com. There's a photo gallery and several photos on the site. I'm no pro, but I can ride em. I'm the good looking guy with the short brown hair and beard.
Thanks again everyone for your honest opinion.
I don’t mind wasting my time or money (in the eyes of others).
Never bought into the protestant work ethic.
There’s a certain irony in the producer of Alaias donating proceeds of sales to a christian church organisation.