Where is my Polishing God when I need Him?

Okay, let’s face it, no matter how much each of us knows, we always have a weak spot. My Achilles Heel is polishing and I need the Polish God to come to my aid.

I’ve read other posts including a good one from Spence about polishing methods circa 1990’s. I have polished a lot of boards with many different approaches going back all the way into the 70’s. Some had terrific results and other days were not so great. Honestly, I don’t handle a candle to Bahne’s polisher back in the days of Wayne glassing and Peter Pinliner doing all those tiny red white and blue pins in the same size as everyone else single pins.

So with that being said, and other than the obvious fact that I hate polishing compared to any other facet of board building someone has got to ease my pain with some hidden gem of a tip for fixing burns quickly and easily as I polish some “we want them shiny” orders. I have a lot of hair on my head but won’t soon unless The Polishing God finds me.

You need info…okay so here goes. Boards we are talking about are glassed with 6 oz and 4 oz. and laminated and hotcoated using Silamr 1421 Iso Ortho blend. I considered changing the ‘gloss’ to Reichold finishing resin but Wade at FH said the 1421 is pretty hard because of it being the blend (being the difference in hardness of iso and ortho). I wondered if maybe I was overdosing on surfacing agent which is wax and styrene…and I don’t add additional styrene but do add a pretty healthy (2 to 3 oz’s) of surfacing as this is UV resin and I definitely want the wax to come up. Some people have trouble using UV for hotcoats but all ya gotta do is look and wait til you see the wax has come up.

Sanding…waves and crap from laps or additional patches are blocked for trueness. Good Power Pads are used not sub standard sanding pads. I go finer grit (120 to 150 tops) on the flats and 60 to 80 (tops) on the rail. Why? Because with less tooth on the flats less resin load up is attained keeping weight down where there is less likelihood to burn thru to the weave. Where the curve and verticals are I leave it rougher so there is more tooth for the resin to load into leaving less chance to burn thru.

Sanding with the usual variety of grits depending on the quality of gloss (using a good brush) is not out of the norm. Using 220 grit is generally the coarsest I’d start out with but more like 320 is the norm. These can be dry or wet…plenty of guys do a lot of dry sanding and I started doing this later on from my early days of polising where I even used a hose running and was heavily insulated while doing this…yeah sure, I miraculously lived thru that era. Then I change to squeeze bottles and the drop of dishwashing liquid…and so on. I finish with 500 or 600 using buffing and polishing pads as necessary…haven’t gone the liquid ebony route in a long time to get rid of wheel marks but have been there done that.

So my question is burns…who has the quick and easiest way to fix burn thrus? My method has been to sand the area with coarser grit the graduate out to the fine grits so the resin grabs where it is needed and flattens out where I want it to fair in. It is still very difficult not to get rid of the fine shiny hairline between the two so that they are perfeclt blending virtually disappearing. And it is ever so easy to burn thru agai, if not on the original spot then right near it.

Who wants to sit there doing it over and over again until you get it right…having to sand and prep a much larger area so you can gradually fair it in w/out burns? I don’t think3 or 4 coats of Future acrylic works…maybe the stuff yellows horibly too? Some guys used “Hard as Nails” nail polish for small rail burns but what about on or near the flat?

Maybe I have to gloss with a lot more resin netting a heavier more brittle board?

Where is my Polishing God?

I am not the polishing God

I also have times where I have a problem board,why?,I aint figured that out yet

but I have found that using a power sander on the rails is not for me, I do them by hand

and get excellant polished rails

when applying the gloss ,too thin = not enough to polish without burn through and too thick = splits and sags

if I get the slits I baste over them when the resin is gelled to save them

I dont worry about a little more weight to get a good polish

temprature has a lot to do with it also, I believe warm resin flows better

additives, the resin out of the can should yeild a good gloss coat without adding stuff

hope any of this helps, also my deepest sympathy

Sorry Kensurf…didn’t help…we are on the same page. I hand do the rails…yup no problem, beautiful beautiful…but when you burn you burn and it’s a bummer and a nightmare sitting there having to fix and try try again.

There’s gotta be a better way.

When I hand sanded for “Triad,” my buddy Greg machined with 50 and 100 grit only. I followed with 100 grit (lengthwise) on the rails and 50 and 100 on the fins (everything was glass ons back then) to take down wheel marks and left it at that. Orlando put down some perfect glosses and Greg polished 'em to a mirror finish. That was the only secret I was privy to.

Well, that makes sense…'ve done that too, and sometimes the whole thing just with 80 grit and go gloss it. My glosses were good…I used qualty brushes and I always suspended them in a can of acetone so the bristles never bent on the bottom and the acetone line wasn’t destroying the bond that hold the bristles…this was after two premim cleans and flocking then put into it’s ‘home’ for next time.

A man could go crazy over this…some guys resi baste with lam on the laps and flash that before glossing figuring the extra resin will keep you from burning through. Some guys will only use a flat palm or orbital sander…

anyone else…fixing burns?

Help Mr. Wizard!!!

Gloss resin only. If any other resin is used, or some type of mix, then the polish is like putting perfume on a pig. If the gloss coat is decent, if it was done in a clean, relatively warm environment, then 400 and 500 is all you need. Start with a used sheet of 400 and a machine with an easy pull trigger so you can “walk” the powerpad along the resin bead on the rail. After the bead is sanded I use the same sheet of paper and same “walking the pad” technique to scuff the fins (this may or may not be an issue). With resin bead sanded down and fins scuffed, get a new sheet of 400, set the reostat on your machine to 1000 rpm, and sand the deck. With the machine running slow the paper will not heat up and it will do what it is supposed to do, cut the wax. Only cut approx 1/3 down the rail. With the deck done, check the paper. You may need a new sheet for the bottom. Sand the bottom using the same technique. Switch to 500 grit and do the same on bottom and deck. After finishing with the 500, remove sheet from the powerpad, fold, and use to wetsand the rails and fins if there are any.

Using a 5000 machine, some Sure Luster, and a wool pad, take out the scratches. There won’t be many if it was sanded with only 400 and 500. Careful not to heat the board too much and bring up waffles. Switch to a slow machine, 1700 or 2800, or 1000-3000 w/ reostat and easy pull trigger, one of those yellow synthetic pads and some Meguiar’s #7 or #8 (one is yellowish, the other green), and polish the board.

Thanks Spence…I know you outlined htis before…for the 400 grit are you wetsanding with a drop of dish detergent and at 1000 rpm adding a squeeze here and there as needed?

Also, when you do burn (shit happens, let’s face it) what’s your method.

thanks in advance…polishing again and not real thrilled but ya gotta pleeeze da peeple.

All sanding dry except hand sanding the rails and fins. Burns? Hmmmmmmmmmmm. Touch it up as best you can then hand sand.

Fixing burns can be a nightmare if not done correctly. Before suncure I too pulled my hair out, but now they are a snap to fix. For small rail burns just use 100 grit to scratch it up good again, making sure to prep at least 1/8th to 1/4 " past your burn all the way around. Tape off your prepped area right at or just past your prep line. Apply suncure and coat it liberally. Make sure you do it cleanly with no drips or built up edges or you can forget it and start over. Now pull your tape and smooth out your tape edges with your finger. Now walk it out into the sun. Give it at least 10 or 15 minutes in the bright sunlight. To feather it in I do it dry (can’t tell when it’s flat if you use water) with some fresh 320 wet or dry. You can see when your edges are getting close to flat and feathered when sanding dry. Be sure to stop just shy of getting the edges completely feathered. Now wetsand with 400 and 500 to feather it the rest of the way, and re-polish. As long as you can figure out when to stop sanding you won’t burn through it again. If you don’t have suncure you can follow the same steps you just have to let it sit for a couple of hours minimum.

Box & Spence…thanks. Yeah I suspected that the hotcoat resin (even 1421) is just too soft unless you have a perfect day…as I recal the old Reichold is harder and also has levelers in it.

I don’t have a problem with not having levelers in the hotcoat resin, but I betthe scratch resistance is superior in the Reichold as well.

I swear by UV because fix its as well as everything else is fast and good. I have a suspicion that hot coat resin has higher porosity than finishing resin…it would be interesting to know if there is a weight differential between two drums.

Have you mixed UV powder into your Reichold? Let me know if you have. And on the final note…yes, I guess we all know it’s a bitch when you’re almost done and you get a burn along the ride of a concave, a channel, the rail, or some other vulnerable spot. We’re not dealing with much margin for error.

I need to get a reostat again…who is a good source? Granger?

is this suncure gloss resin?

Many of the newer grinders come with them built in. No need to purchase one separately.

the only dial speed grinder I have is an older lightweight Makita that isn’t even around anymore…oterwise I have a 5500 RPM Milwauke grinder and a 1700 Mil. polisher…y 3000 Mil died awhile back.

Spence have you tried UV powder in Reichold finishing resin…and to the guy in Ireland…you can get the UV powder and mix it into your polyester resins to make it UV resin…I was just asking Spence if he has done this or just stayed with catalyst…

Try asking Kokua for his magic recipe. That should help your hot coats / gloss coats flow. Don’t forget to strain your gloss resin.

…hell o Dead shaper,

now Im living in a place that dont have gloss resin, is cold and there s too much humidity

all crap to do a perfect gloss coat…

so I do the gloss coats with lam resin + wax

I start to sand with 360 grit, then 400 500 600 (Norton paper)

all slightly sanded

360 and 400 dry to see the imperfections then wet

no problems with burns

the problems come if you sand the curves in the tail or nose, fins, etc with the tool

I sand (most sand) those spots slightly by hand

but you need to finish with a lesser grit (in my case 1000) ;you know hand sand leaves more sanding marks than the machine…

believe me its all about technique

is like G Lopez said when asked about how rides Pipeline like him

and he said that the secret was surfing in the crappy days (mushy, heavy, not perfect days…) then when is classic is very easy

with a perfect room, weather, resin, etc is a children game if you did lots of boards with not so good conditions

—the tiny burns are fixed like Lokbox said, but better to sand the area with 220 or heavier grit

ive used UV catalyst in normal resin was just wondering if you can use it with gloss?

That Milwaukee speed control tool (spence provided the link) is a good investment. I’ve got the

0 -1750 rpm model and it’s very useful. A 0 - 2800 rpm machine would be even more so.

Dead:

Can’t help on the polishing, but here’s a good 'stat I use.

http://www.amazon.com/MLCS-Router-Speed-Control-Heavy/dp/B000NDLGYS

I use it on my Mil sander/polisher as well as my router & other

power tools. It works great for anything under 3 1/4 hp.

Paul…not sure what you mean "UV catalyst…are you saying you are putting a litle catalyst in with the UV resin? Quite a few guys do this when doing their laminate logos at the same time. as glassing. You need to use a small percentage of catalyst so you don’t overheat the glass job.

As far as the other stuff the guys mention here…yes, I know where to hand sand and where the sander is most likely to burn the gloss…I also have hotcoated thousands of boards…

That wasn’t actually my point…I’m very experienced at many facets of building boards for nearly forty years…I was just saying that polishing is the weakest part of my game. And more importantlyI was putting it out there for everyone to fess up with any major discovery they may have stumbled upon when the occasional burn happens.

So if I gather right, no one really has an answer for som magic fix for exposed weave on a flat or otherwise…Spence was real detailed on the process and others chimed in with their two cents worth, but basically what i was after never revealed anything new.

I’m not trying to sound snippy here…just a fact that we are all still in the same boat and fixing burns are best solved by never getting them in the first place. Hey, the polish I have on the hotcoats are flawless except for the burn!

Somehow the customer isn’t gonna see it that way, now are they?!

thanks Mike and Teach…under $30 bucks for the stat…heck yeah…slow down and make em shine w/no burns. Sorry but I hate the burns…the polished board DO look pretty even if they’re weaker and heated up…hey let’s float some glass getting rid of those scratches and promote breakage.wheeeeee!