Gorilla type glues are based on a MDI (methelene-diphenol-isocyate) Do you know what isocyate is ? Do you even want to know ? Do you even care? They sell it so it must be OK! Or is it ? What you don't know can kill you! but then if you are dead you will never know !!!
JimtheGenius, all due respect, but the GG white discussed in this thread is a fast cure polyurethane glue. GG does market a more traditional white wood glue.
BG, I can't answer your question as I've never hotwired a PU glue line. I'd imagine a hotwire would cut it just fine. As for toxicity, the fumes coming off hotwired EPS can't be any better for you than burnt PU glue, so turn the fans on and ventilate your work area well!
Thanks surfthis.
@Woodogre
Do you offer a comparable alternative to isocyanates? I assume you are opposed to polyurethane blanks as well. I don’t particularly favor them either.
Do you use pressure treated lumber – arsenic? Do you work, live or recreate in a structure where it was used as a building material?
Is polystyrene foam more biodegradable than polyurethane foam? Time frame for degradation?
What is the chemical composition of epoxy (resin, hardener or catalyst)?
Do you use fiberglass cloth? How long for degradation. If “silicate” based, never…
Based on your screen name I will assume you favor wood. If so, I admire your convictions as long as you don’t don’t use synthetics to seal or bond it or energy to form it. How is the wood you use harvested and processed? How are the tools you use made?
Do you drink coffee or soft drinks from styrofoam or plastic polymer cups? If not, what about paper, glass or steel cups? How are they manufactured (materials and/or process used?).
Do you buy meat and eggs in depron foam containers (XPS)? What is the blowing agent used to create gas pockets, how is it used?
What insecticides, herbicides, fungicides, hormones or preservatives are used to produce the food you eat?
Do you use a car to get your surfboards to the beach – full of synthetics and emits toxins.
Do you wear “organic” cotton and hemp clothes? What are your shoes made of, where are they made? Are there environmental standards or regulations in the country that manufactures them?
I too would like to use a truly environmentally friendly and lightweight building material with proper density and flex. Where do we draw the line for toxic and clean?
Sorry, this isn’t a political or environmental platform thread…
BTW cyanide is an “organic” compound, carbon and nitrogen only (one C triple bonded to one N).
BgSurfer, good responce ,well thought out,well executed. I am not against the use of anything. Just saying one should know what one is useing and how to use it safely. I use all kind of nasty things in my shop but I try to know the pros and cons.I have used some of the nastest of nasties . Try to do it as safely as possible.. I am not a greeny or enviromentalist nor a peacenick . In fact I still think that napalm, cluster bombs, and dazy cutter are a cool ways to kill people !!! About my house, It is all wood that I milled myself . I use an alaskan chain saw mill and bandsaw . Want to pollute the air and your lungs run a chainsaw everyday !! I don't use Gorilla glue in my shop. Not because it is toxic but because it is the weakest glue there is and has no use in woodworking for anything that is expected to last a long time. Max life for Gorilla is about 6 years. I guess it is fine for glueing foam. What ever you use just be sure you use it safely!!
Thanks Surfthis.
I’ll have to try the Sumo.
The best way I’ve found to keep the stuff left over in the bottle is to squeeze out as much air as possible, place the cap on tightly, wrap a small piece of masking tape around the cap and spout to hold it on, then turn it upside down and store it in an empty coffee can…
Being upside down seals the nozzle so no air can infiltrate … Sqeezing out the excess air before capping aids this also…
I have not tried the white GG. Sounds like a little white pigment might work wonders.
We found out over here at the Low Tech Lab that we were using way too much glue. The extra glue was working it's way into the foam....Ugly....
For EPS stringer glue ups try using less glue and spackling the foam first.
The strength is in the glass job not the G Glue That's my opinion.......
Ray
What glue are you using Thick-Skin-Ray?
What density EPS?
Firstly, I got to laugh because the only guy on this thread who really knows how to glue blanks on this thread besides me has been marginalized. Jim is the man I consider around here who probably knows his stuff on gluing blanks better than me. His workmanship is the best. Its like the pro’s check in to help the gremmies (as Velzy would say) and their demeaned instantly. In terms of levels of understanding the process of adhering foam or wood JP is the man. Take it from someone who has already done it thousands of times. My first response had the answer you color the glue. Furthermore, and more importantly gorilla glue is not even close to being the best choice for gluing blanks, because of its inherent elastisity it does not finish well with the tools commonly used by surfboard shapers. Point is specific additives are introduced to help the shaper finish out the blank without gouging or tearing the foam. How many people out there know what they are?
Kite rider and Ray also add something meaningful here. Air (specifically the moisture in the air) reacts the glue and it expands, if you don’t believe me mix a bit of water in the glue for an experiment. Ray also has some insights because of the foaming reaction, a little bit works its way into the interstices of the EPS, creating what he calls a “mess”. The mess is when you try to shape it. Hand tools feel like their putting on the breaks with the stuff.
Read Jim’s post comprehensively. The white Gorilla glue under discussion is PU.
If Jim wants to suggest an alternative, we would all give him due consideration.
Let the ranting begin.
Carry on.
(Boggles the mind.)
Over it
[quote="$1"]
What glue are you using Thick-Skin-Ray?
What density EPS?
[/quote]
Hello Stoneburner...Today, I am using standard Gorilla Glue...The ugly brown stuff I buy at Home Depot. That does not mean it is the Right Stuff or the Best Stuff. I am using 2 # EPS foam. My friends and I have tried other things. The 5 minute epoxy was easy to glue up but really bad on the planners. The wood glue never dried.....Ghettorat and Jim are here to help us out.....Sit back and be mellow.
ThinSkin...........
Thanks SkinRay.
Mellow is for hippies, muppets and pinot noir. Ranting is for preachers, politicians and their followers.
Terse practical information with direct application is priceless.
Update your profile. Location matters. Resepect the Pros.
I do not understand your reply.
Ray
[quote="$1"]
Furthermore, and more importantly gorilla glue is not even close to being the best choice for gluing blanks, because of its inherent elastisity it does not finish well with the tools commonly used by surfboard shapers. [/quote]
Honest question, what's your choice for blank glue-ups? We've tried a melamine adhesive (can't remember the brand name) with mixed results. Seems like it takes forever to cure and sometimes pops loose while shaping.
Personally, I've had good results using PU glues, just don't use very much and you won't have to deal with the excess foaming out of the glue line.
I’d like to say my interest in the white Gorrilla glue lies mainly in its quicker 30-60 min set times, as compared to standard MDI… So that any work I do with it while under vacuum will be completed quicker…
The white color is a nice bonus for me but not critical.
I don’t use wooden stringers, so I have no knowledge of how well it would work here…
I do however use it to glue on 5/8" wide core-cell rail bands that act as parabolic stringers when glued on under vacuum on a rocker table… I also use it to glue in core-cell inserts for finbox installations… I even installed a core-cell bottom skin with this type of glue with great results…
The type of MDI glue I presently used is called Elmer’s Ultimate… Which can be bought at Candian Home Depots, is quite a bit cheaper than Gorrilla glue, and comes in a larger bottle than G.G. I have mixed it with a small amount of waterbased acrylic black paint with good results…
Pro or not a pro … I respect those who give it.
What I found with the carpenter’s type of glues is, once the glue on the surface has set up, it seals in the glue beneath and it is like putting the cap back on the bottle. Everything looks great and as you start to plane, it gets down to wet glue and the blank comes apart, oh well, like I say, everything I have learned was from the teeth in my ass.
The Gorilla glue is NOT light stabilized and over time with EPS starts to look like a yellow/brown comp stripe along the stringer, I use a scrap of stringer for a squeegee and apply it like stain and it still foams out of the seam, so you only need the very smallest amount.
**Simple questions asked:**
**** [quote="$1"] Does white gorilla glue only come in 2 oz quantities?
Anybody know where I might be able to buy larger single volume?
Any equivalent substitutes. [/quote]
[quote="$1"]
What glue are you using Thick-Skin-Ray?
What density EPS?
[/quote]
**Direct answers given:**
[quote="$1"] sent an e-mail to the manufacturer of Gorilla glue asking them if they produce the white in larger quantities...
It should be a day or so for a reply being that it's Sat. [/quote]
[quote="$1"] I'd like to say my interest in the white Gorrilla glue lies mainly in its quicker 30-60 min set times, as compared to standard MDI...
The type of MDI glue I presently used is called Elmer's Ultimate... Which can be bought at Candian Home Depots,,, is quite a bit cheaper than Gorrilla glue,,, and comes in a larger bottle than G.G. [/quote]
[quote="$1"] This is almost 7 oz. of PU glue that dries white, Loctite makes it. I've used it and it works well
[quote="$1"] Today, I am using standard Gorilla Glue...The ugly brown stuff I buy at Home Depot ... I am using 2 # EPS foam. [/quote]
mahalo
@ JimTJ - can you give us a good alternative to PU or Epoxy for foam bonding that is easy to shape and cut? White color is a bonus but not a requirement. More than 2 oz volumes, but less than 2 quarts, are preferred.
Well, I have the remains of the AST polyurethane resin that became the rage several years back, it is extremely more exacting in measurements than epoxy resins and takes forever to set up, even after microwaving it, maybe it is because I put powder coat dry paint in it to whiten it up, but it is only glue lines !
Channin really f’d up and put pigment in it and had to toss the board and the laminator had it get on his forearm past the glove, it looked like a brandywine birth mark the next day, nasty stuff