Who’s using Warp

General Discussion
1

So who’s using Warp Cloth 1521 or 7554 ?   So what do you think about the workability, strength etc.  Comments and opinions?   Also are you using it in combo with Plain Weave E,  S or other fabrics?

2

Looking forward to this discussion.  However it will be a can of worms.  Thanks for bringing it up.  Here a few thoughts of mine:

  1. I like 12 oz under foot  and 6 oz on the bottom.  I want my boards to last.
  2. I like multi axis cloth for the snap resistance it provides;
  3. Warp is good, but IMO only with other layers in the lam stack.  Which makes me wonder if I shouldnt just use a multi axis instead.
  4. If using 6 oz warp on the deck I have rotated a little to give some off axis orientation.
  5. Warp works well enough in laminating.   Finish is probably a bigger factor than yarn orientation.
  6. My ideal for the lam stack would be"4oz plain weave/4 oz multi axis/4oz plain weave" for a total of 12 oz on the deck.  Maybe shorten the middle layer by 18 inches at the nose to reduce weight? The bottom would have one layer of multi axis 6 oz.  All of this would make me feel better, who knows if it is optimum.
  7. As for strength?  Without analytical data, it is just a big guess.  Too many variables. 

all the best to ya, Ding

3

Because surfboards are longer than wider and thicker, warp Glass with 60% fiber lenghtwise should be the norm for surfboards for 0/90 and even more stringerless bkanks. My supplier don’t have it anymore because local pro builder wants 1522… Again lack of basic mechanical knowledge in this business…

Know i use industrie 1.5lb eps, at least 1 10oz ud carbon springer, 9oz multiaxis Glass both side + 4oz top. Boards weight like Standard pu/pe shop but are far more durable. Standard shop boards can’t stay in one part long in my local beachbreak.

4

9 oz each side plus 4 oz sound really good to me.

All the best to you, lemat

5

I’ve been using it lately, I like how it cuts with the scissors and less fraying with rail tucking, or if it does easy to peel loose strings off clean.plus it sounds cool :slight_smile:

6

I gave up on Hexcel and went back to BGF.   Hexcel is wravel and loose thread city.  Gonna sell the couple of rolls I have by the yard and never buy another one.  I usually combine Warp and E on the deck.   I may stick to that or go straight Warp all the way.  Surfboards are why BGF came up with it in the first place.

7

Mc Ding, sorry for drifting of … but this is very interesting for me.

@Greg Tate:

I am with you on the off axis orientation . 

Snap resistance is caused by fibers every direction but 0 or 90 over the rail. 0 does only good because of the rocker, but it’s a long way to direct the forces.

90 is the weakest of all orientations in shear.

In all the discussions about flex , strength, stringers etc there is very rarely talked about the impact of fiberdirections…Am I  wrong on this topic?

  • by finish do you mean the sizing or sanded / polished finish?

Thanks , 

Jasper

 

8

Hi jspr.  Yes I mean sizing.  I really like how direct sizing glass drapes and handles while wetting out, but it can be a stringy mess on the edges.  And while DS was strongly promoted for a while, it seems to have fallen from favor lately and is hard to find.  On the other hand, I had a roll of some really stiff plain weave BASF with a special finish for epoxy that would not wrap the laps and it drove me crazy.  But no strings.  Pretty sure it was 60% warp.  The sizing was the problem.

I think the problem we all have is that there is not a body of accepted knowledge that we can all depend on.  Most of what I think I know is from talking to sales and manufacturing people in trade shows and experts here and there and trying to remember what works for me.  IOW, winging it.  

You’ve heard it said that you have to shape 1,000 boards before you are reasonably good at shaping?  Maybe the same goes for glassing.  (I have not shaped anywhere near 1,000 boards, let alone glassed them.)

all the best to ya,

9

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I think the problem we all have is that there is not a body of accepted knowledge that we can all depend on.  Most of what I think I know is from talking to sales and manufacturing people in trade shows and experts here and there and trying to remember what works for me.  IOW, winging it.  

You’ve heard it said that you have to shape 1,000 boards before you are reasonably good at shaping?  Maybe the same goes for glassing.  (I have not shaped anywhere near 1,000 boards, let alone glassed them.)

I agree , same with me, just bits and pieces of information from other people, and I am not educated enough to judge that information. But after some iterations, some things make more sense than others…Thanks ,

Jasper

10

Well Hell!  How much more damned knowledge do we need.  Some friggin’ fabrics are  better than others.  Based on the knowledge of those who use them.  Get it together.  Read and evaluate!

11

There were a few threads on fibre direction a few years ago by a guy who was doing strength testing on boards.

Off axis weave was recommended.

Edit:

Benjamin Thompson was the man. This was one of the threads from 10 years ago: https://www.swaylocks.com/forums/hard-numbers-flex-demystify-flex-patterns

12

Near everything about composits skins was discuss on sways here and there. 

Mechanical rules for composits sandwich build are basics and well known in mechanical World (i am a mechanical teacher so it help to know for sure) but not often by surfboards builders.

So, long fiber, reinforced when they are stretch lenghtwise, for other direction of stress their contribution is limited to Matrix ability to keep them together. In sandwich composits skin experiment tensil, compressive, flexural and shear stress. So need to play with 3D orientation of fibers with right Matrix to optimize skin.