I’m wondering how many builders out there are looking for different alternatives than FCS Fin Sysytems and other removable fin system companies?
It was menitoned to me recently that the 2nd highest cost in materials for building a board is now the fin system (2nd only to the blank ).
I understand that FCs has to recoup a certain amount of cost for developing the system and the molds (as well as any retirement/replacement of molds), but when I look at the cost for a single plug insert, well…I just cannot believe the price is justified.
That, plus the added fact that they control the distribution of the inserts wit an iron hand make it just about impossible to run a decent repair shop for those customers that blow out an insert or two. I think there’s a bit (or healthy dose) of paranoia going on that may or may not be justified.
I’d like to hear from some other people that are exploring or have changed to other options with satisfaction. Yes, we can always choose to glass on fins…I’ve done plenty of them, but if you are shipping boards the fins are probably the greatest single concern or limiting factor in grouping and sending boards.
So I have to ask if the expense being charged for removable multi fin systems is justified or if all of them are in cahoots together?
Howzit DeadShaper, If you are buying fin systems at a retail price it can be expensive. But wholesale is not that bad. FCS has a discount process depending on how many sets a company buys so the more you buy the less they cost. Without the discount I think a complete tri fin set up with plugs,fins,key, glass filler and decals cost about $27. I get a 10% discount so mine are under $25 a set and I add $10 for the installation process. Not sure what all the other systems run. Glass on fins run about $13-$15 in Hawaii, but glassing them on and sanding them is more time consuming I think it’s an even trade off. Then you have to take into consideration that glass on fins are easily broken in flight to surf destinations then systems are well worth it. Just my thoughts.Aloha,Kokua
Good thoughts…I think my prompt to write this in the first place is more the controlling of getting any amount of inserts for repairs and new board production. I don’t live next door to Fiberglass Hawaii, and the are even further away after moving from SB down to Ventura. Even with a resale permit the problem was one of availability so as not to have to incur shipping when the item is needed. There was also the fact that the best deal was buying the inserts with a set of fins whether quad, tri, what have you.
Sure you can buy some Austrailian knockoffs of G3’s and G5’s w/out having to buy the inserts, but I don’t think there is enough concern to warrant making it difficult to get the inserts. To be honest, it makes me irritable enough to go get some delrin rod and figure a method for making my own. Yes, I know the response to that all too well…go for it…then if you ever offer them to a friend and we hear about it we’ll sue you for your house…NOT!
Maybe I just don’t like the CONTROL ASPECT to it. Maybe I don’t belong living in our anal times…and yes, it is a pain to be sanding around glassed on fins. Guess I should just put u or shut up.
…still, when I go into shops and see rows of boards sitting there jammed in with no fins on them to save space…I STILL feel like I’m looking at an incomplete product. Go figure.
If someone needs an fcs repair perhaps the answer is to offer to replace with Probox. Sell it to them as an ‘upgrade’. The extra glass patch around the plugs should be there already so attaching the jig and routing out gets rid of the 2 fcs plugs neatly.
Seperate Probox boxes are advertised at under $8 each on the site.
Just a thought.
Mark
Then again I supose you would have to do at least the 2 side fins or only the rear if that was the damaged one.
Howzit DeadShaper. I don’t know what F.H.( Kauai doesn’t have a F.H. shop) charges for FCS products because I get direct from FCS in San Diego. I never had to sign a contract and the only thing FCS requires is that you buy $300 woth of fin sets your first order and they ship for free via UPS. That’s only about 12 sets and if you make many boards that amount won’t last long. I never just buy plugs since a lot of times people come to me for just a set of fins so that leaves me with extra plugs for repairs. Shops ahve a tendency to mark up at least 100% so plugs from a shop can run you as much as $5.00 a plug. If some one wants to buy just plugs from me I charge what FCS chrages me. Aloha,Kokua
…FH was charging me $2.80/insert so I guess I shouldn’t whine…I saw them on Foam EZ for $4.50 each…then tax and shipping I s’pose.
Actually that’s fair that they send to you and don’t charge for it for your order…guess I’m over reacting…guess I should factor in one slip around glass ons and a torn power pad or an impromptu flying surfboard (although I can’t even recall when I last did that).
Okay, I’m all better now…Kokua, just make out an invoice for therapy and send me a bill on the 10th!
Howzit DeadShaper, The thing is we are better off since they closed the FCS operation on Oahu because back then we had to pay for shipping. I have had FCS charge me $2.00 a plug and sometimes $2.50 a plug so the F.H. price of $2.80 a plug retail (is it reatil you pay)seems fair.Aloha,Kokua
Only last week I received a letter from Surfhardware telling me FCS production sets were going up in price in 2008.
At the moment I pay about $46Au for a set of plugs and fins when I order 20 or so sets, which will increase to $49 next year.
This is a massive part of the materials cost of a surfboard.
But this is what the kids want, and trying to talk them into another fin system is almost impossible. The marketing machine of FCS makes the cool factor too big to overcome.
I have also heard , and somebody please correct me if I am wrong, that FCS are sold to the big Chinese manufacturers for Au$22 per set. So this makes it even harder to take.
People also have dozens of FCS fins lying around and would prefer to have FCS to be able to utilise all of the different fins they have,even though there are systems out there that will now take FCS fins.
I have been charging exactly the same amount for every fin system that I install, but from now on I will be charging extra for boards with FCS, and a discounted price for Fin Solutions and other systems that are FCS compatible.
I really like the FCS setup and think it is a really strong and effective fin system ( when installed correctly ), but I am no longer prepared to wear the extra cost when I can buy systems for close to half the price, with the added advantage of being able to use fins from different fin companies that will also fit into the plugs.
Sorry, sounds like whingeing doesn’t it? But if more companies started to charge a bit more for FCS and a bit less for the other systems maybe they might pull their heads in a bit.
When you spend millions on developing a fin that everbody raves about but no one is using anymore you have to recoup your money somehow.
Truthfully, those of us in business know all too well the reality of pricing in different and domestic markets. I’m not surprised there is such a disparity in pricing in different markets as you have revealed. I am sure claims could be made that this simply isn’t the case, but we know that certain markets support higher prices because of median incomes, general economic conditions, and ultimately what the consumer in any given country (market) is willing to pay.
Let’s face it…the surfing public is susceptible to marketing as much as any special interest group, and marketing expense drives the ultimate cost of a product up considerably. Every product experiences 4 stages in its lifetime; Introduction, Growth, Maturity, and Decline. Hence we see the “new and improved” even if it is only in packaging or marketing approach.
How big is the actual surfing marketplace? How long does it take to recoup expense and hit the break even point? How much does petrochemicals play a part in the price? So many different elements play into the outcome of what one will end up paying over the counter or supplying his factory. Suffice to say that ANY fin system that creates a skin to skin connection, is lightweight, strong, and easily installed with consistent results should be in the running for market share.
It’s too bad that free enterprise isn’t working better in this case scenario. I sincerely believe that things are lopsided, so to speak. I’d like to know the systems that are compatible in order to decide what options I might take…I’ve heard of a "superfin system’ that is Chinese and accepts the fins, but no more than that. Free enterprise and options are good…we have to deal with global competition and pricing, and fin systems shouldn’t be any different.
Yea they are heaps expensive here in NZ, i have access to CNC mills and injection moulding machines here at work (Fisher and paykel) and trying to get hold of some plugs so i can get some ideas and design and mould my own… Also have access to all kinds of plastics so am guna mould up sum fins and test different flexes of different plastics…
No worries…sometimes I long for a pre-internet world…the world was largr and more mysterious…going on safari was adventurous because of the not-knowing factor.
I don’t like things homogenized to the point of sterility.