Why are Quick, Bong and making boards?

Industry Talk
1

I don’t know about the US, but in Aus Quiksilver and Billabong (and Ripcurl to a lessor extent) have set up stables of shapers and are producing boards branded with their logos but designed/shaped by the likes of Simon Anderson, Jason Stevenson,Darren Handley (both Rip curl and Quicksilver). What’s up with this? I thought of a couple of reasons why they might do this, but I still can’t see why they’d bother. I thought it might be that:

a. They are worried about board brands like Rusty, Lost and Insight using coverage of their (Quik, Bong) sponsored riders to sell the board brands clothing lines

b. Shapers are stars themselves and sponsoring them by making and selling their boards gives the clothing brand cred

c. They won’t more control over sponsored riders, ie wear our gear and ride boards from your favourite shaper but with our branding.

d. They want a reliable supply of boards for their retail outlets.

e. All of the above

d. none of the above

Anyone have any insights into this?

2

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ CASH $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

3

Quiksilver wants to literally own surfing in the entire world. The American child already owns the Australian Dad with regards to Quik. I don’t touch anything they make with a ten foot poll or sell it.

4

the surfboard is the benchmark of cred …

the whole scene started with the surfboard , not the board short , not the logo emblazoned pencil case …

when a surfer stands in the winners circle his board label gets attention …

popular car racing truth ," the car that wins on sunday, sells on monday "…

the media is all over winners …

hence the shapers with reputations for delivering boards capable of winning contests are first on the list to shape boards for the major labels …

everybody wants market share …logo placing and brand recognition are basic marketing concepts …

minimise the chance of your competitors getting logo recognition and you already have an advantage …

it is E all the way …

all of the above …

regards

BERT

5

Rip Curl has been doing this Via Hamish for along time. Oneil also. Money and credibility. Not that they need either. I’m even doing it. Not that my six boards every couple of months for a T-shirt shop are gonna make me rich though. McDing

6

Rip Curl started as a surfboard company in the 60’s and then started making wetsuits in the early 70’s. They have always been a surfboard manufacturer.

7

Hello Pinhead,

Typical Big Label bashing starts from here.

Maybe you should go into a Quiksilver shop and ask the staff.

All major surf labels were started by super keen surfers who basically wanted surf stuff; what they couldn’t buy they started making for themselves; then their mates and their mates and so on. Success for the founders, yeah sure, but it is just the way you look at it. As they got more orders for whatever they got their mates to help, a business was started and away we go.

About those big labels making boards, Rip Curl started as a board making company and the Quiksilver owners generously handed their label over to the likes of Lynchy and Browny who were making boards for all their guys anyway.

They did that to streamline the account side of things and give a bit back to the shapers. That allowed the boys to shape and surf and Quik picked up the outstanding accounts to their customers.

Thats how it started and thats how it continues to this day.

Its extremely generous as the shapers do not have to carry debt and they love it.

Over the years it has branched out to include sponsored surfers like Brett Warner [ check his family tree for board making], Mark Richards and Simon Anderson ,etc [ do you need to check those guys credibility??]. These guys are no fools and no one is head locking them to do anything, other than do what they do best. Shape and design surfboards.

They all still make boards for whoever they want as well as label boards.

Billabong has done something similar to JS and Chillee. An opportunity to continue to do what they love and make a quid with some security.

All these big, nasty companies only exist in the minds of the uninformed. The reality is that all surf companies exist and abide by laws of the land. That should not be confused with where they came from, the reason they started in the first place and the absolute winner, the amount of totally surf stoked crew that now work for them and are able to live their dream.

Sorry all, no hidden agendas.

8

Right on Dfresh. I don’t understand those who think that Quiksilver has some hidden agenda. They started a business and it worked. I intern there and look forward to getting a job…hopefully. Working in a company where everyone surfs, skates, snowboards, etc. is an awesome experience. Much better than the other various offices and jobs I’ve taken. How cool to not only surf but be involved in part of the manufacture of surf culture. Not many businesses where you can hang out with people who are ALL likeminded and enjoy the same lifestyle.

9

D-Fresh, Brett, Cuttie

I was just trying to get some opinions on something I wasn’t sure about. I’m not bagging the surf corporates. The promotional activies of surfwear companies, maintains a level of interest in the sport, that creates demand for boards, which in turn keeps shapers in jobs. Also competitive surfing has driven design innovation, so while I’m not happy with the crowds of kooks, in summer or my favourite breaks being taken over for promotional activities a once a month, the equipment I ride is better because of it all. D-fresh, cuttie I didn’t see a name and location in your User Profiles - are you real people?

10

I’m as real as you are pin. I don’t think computer machines can type [ yet]

Just logged on today, seems like i didn’t fill in the profile correctly? I’m on another computer,so who knows what will happen.

Fair enough what you say about not knowing why big surf companies are making boards.

There isn’t a lot of money in it, but if you are careful then small boardmakers can stay afloat.

That is where the big surf companies are helping out the smaller board makers. By taking over some of the back office operations that the small guy may have to employ the misses or some one for 1/2 a week, the large surf company just adds it to their operation and it is easily assimilated.

Believe me there is no money in it for them, but who better people to support than local boardmakers. Now there is an agenda,how can they say no if you need a new stick for that sudden, unplanned surf trip?? oh yeah, gotta love the local shaper.

The industry has gone offshore because surf consumers buy what is cheapest; fact. Many also want a cheap surfboard, fact.Same with wetsuits.

All that stuff is designed for the local market by local crew but is manufactured elsewhere to give consumers the product they want at the price they want to pay.

Its not logical to think that surf companies are making a killing on a t shirt that retails for $30 when in 1975 a Golden Breed t retailed for $25. It can be pumped out anywhere, by anybody.

I digress. The point is all that stuff is same ol ,same ol.

What the major companies are doing with board makers is helping them keep the custom surfboard alive. You can duplicate anything, and machined boards are no different. But all of these shapers still shape custom boards.

But if you don’t want, or can’t, surf like a pro so don’t feel the need to buy a “model”, but really want to try your own thing, then it is such a buzz to go down to the local board factory and talk about, order, watch even, your new custom stick being created.

Afraid you can’t do that at Mr Popouts factory.

Its not uncommon for the heads of all of these major companies to be found hanging out at the local board factory.

They remember the buzz, do you? If not get down there, talk to the boys and maybe order your own new shooter.

Stay tubed.

11
Quote:

Right on Dfresh. I don’t understand those who think that Quiksilver has some hidden agenda. They started a business and it worked. I intern there and look forward to getting a job…hopefully. Working in a company where everyone surfs, skates, snowboards, etc. is an awesome experience. Much better than the other various offices and jobs I’ve taken. How cool to not only surf but be involved in part of the manufacture of surf culture. Not many businesses where you can hang out with people who are ALL likeminded and enjoy the same lifestyle.

I personally don’t think they have a hidden agenda. I think they are like all big companies. They must own as much of the market as possible. It’s kill or be killed mindset. In the early years they provided something unavailable. Now it’s fashion and not much more than that. With a host of fahion lovers following it.

12
Quote:

seems like i didn’t fill in the profile correctly?

Login Go to “my settings” click on “User profile” there are fields for “Real Name” and “Location”

Quote:

What the major companies are doing with board makers is helping them keep the custom surfboard alive

OK this bit makes sense - its a bit like my point b. The surfwear makers are helping keep that local custom shaper cuture thing alive Its a win win situation shapers are able to benefit from the brands corporate resources and brand gets to stay close to the culture. I’m still curious about the relationship the surfwear co’s have with their sponsered riders and the guys who shape their boards.

Quote:

They remember the buzz, do you? If not get down there, talk to the boys and maybe order your own new shooter.

I make my own boards - its a better buzz

13

Most shapers with talent already have more orders than they can keep up with, so they don’t need Quikabong to put their labels on boards. From a business standpoint, it makes sense for your team guys to be riding your logo boards. I don’t have an issue with that, but in my opinion it was the boardbuilders who gave surfing it’s cool image and made folks want to go surfing more than any clothing company.

14

Ooh the lurkers have emerged to gang up on poor 'ol Pinhead!

So Dfresh and Winkipop, it is bleedingly obvious that you are employees of the Torquay big labels. I have some ideas who you might be. Frankly i don’t give a fuck if you fill in your profiles or not, because your opinions are utterly irrelevant in their bias.

Let me reassure you that I am well qualified to comment of the industry in Torquay, and that I got out of there because its fucked. Who fucked it?

Ask Russel Graham, contract glasser for Ripcurl for 25 years, if his livelihood did’nt take a severe dive when Ripcurl started stocking BASE… What of his son, who has been forced to push his own label, because the Curl slutted out to popular Queensland labels?

What is hot legend local shaper Michael Anthony (of Ripcurl) doing right now?

How many of the Quiksilver boards does your beloved Wayne Lynch actually shape? And what other Wayne is slaving out the back of Gash unrecognised? These are the local shapers you speak of, if I take Torquay as your case in point :- I know ALL THOSE GUYS, and you are actually making pissweak excuses for shortchanging them.

Ask Browny if he’d get a few more orders if quik refused to stock imports.

Of course theres the need to satisfy a market demand, and of course Ripcurl and quiksilver will go for market share.

That is the rule of business, but why would the clothing labels then bother claiming to support local shapers?

( Gash/Browny is No. 4 in Quiksilvers list of contracted manufacturers…why not No. 1, he’s Old-school Torquay hardcore?)

Why…

Because the clothing labels crave the credibility, somehow, it till pays to be attached to a hardcore image, a real shaper…

Because yes, theres an element in the market who still want contact with a local shaper who knows the waves, an element who love to go the factory to talk to Ack as he glasses…

And those two big brands want/need that market share too.

Etc Etc etc…

Speedneedle

15

I like that Speedy & Solo hang out on this here forum.

You guys really make your points well.

Sometimes the general discussion gets a little weak in static/signal ratio. Not so in IT.

Whoops, I guess I’m static, not signal. Kind of like clothing companies…

A clothing or shoe or sunglasses or watch company is not legitimized by making a few boards, no matter how they started out.

I’m done.

16
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but in my opinion it was the boardbuilders who gave surfing it’s cool image and made folks want to go surfing more than any clothing company.

Solo - it’d be nice to think that it was boardbuilders who made it cool - but the fact is the act of riding a wave is intrinsically cool. The surfwear co’s have made more people go surfing by getting surfing on the tv news. The surfwear co’s are helping a few marketable shapers keep their lifestyles intact, because, like you say its good business. Also I agree with your point that talented shapers in the right locations don’t need any help with their businesses (for now).

I’m not trying to be a cheerleader for the big three here - but I wouldn’t enjoy my surfing quite as much down here in Victoria if it wasn’t for my super stretchy, fluid sealed seamed 4/3 with non leaking neck/back zip. Actually my suit’s is an O’neil so I probably could live without quickripbong but you get my point.

17
Quote:
Quote:

but in my opinion it was the boardbuilders who gave surfing it’s cool image and made folks want to go surfing more than any clothing company.

Solo - it’d be nice to think that it was boardbuilders who made it cool - but the fact is the act of riding a wave is intrinsically cool. The surfwear co’s have made more people go surfing by getting surfing on the tv news. The surfwear co’s are helping a few marketable shapers keep their lifestyles intact, because, like you say its good business. Also I agree with your point that talented shapers in the right locations don’t need any help with their businesses (for now).

I’m not trying to be a cheerleader for the big three here - but I wouldn’t enjoy my surfing quite as much down here in Victoria if it wasn’t for my super stretchy, fluid sealed seamed 4/3 with non leaking neck/back zip. Actually my suit’s is an O’neil so I probably could live without quickripbong but you get my point.

Good post. No doubt, surfing itself is cool without anyone or anything else. Cool in that it’s a very unique sport that can never be explained to those who have never tried it or simply have no soul and see it as just another activity. To me, when I paddle out, it’s like feeling the earth move. Especially on the good days. I rarely feel more alive. My family gives me the same feeling, but on that personal journey, the one inside your head that no one else can really share…surfing has always done it for me.

Clothing companies have tried that best to take that type of feeling and bottle it for a buck, while claiming to simply want a surfing lifestyle on fashions they would wear, but they still treat surfing like a cheap Tie and push it harder than a merchant at a middleeatern bazzare. They sell colored rags to teenagers trying to take on an identity they themselves lack. Same for the 45 year old 15 year old trying to still be …“one of the pack”

The one thing about boardbuilding and surfing is that your skills or lack of them always did the talking. Now you have B league shapers coming up with marketing plans and using machines, moulds and Asia to create something that looks like the A shapers create on their own. The surfing industry does not care for those that helped many of them get their millions. There were certain shapers behind Quiksilver and Billibonk, that never got any slice of the pie and not even any credit. The mags simply don’t tell the truth. They make up fairytales to tell the kiddies (big and small) and include a local name or two from time to tim to make the old guys feel important. They will become Christian, satan worshipers, Buddist or anything else they need to become to sell ads or clothing. During the middle ages they would call them court jesters.

The guys that start the sucessful companies like Quik are sharp cookies, but they also came along at a time when there was nothing like that and surfing was ready for a surge. They have maintained it well, but turned the art of surfing into a packaged sport with a boring pro tour, boring magazines, and an image geared towards 15 year old mentality.

At least Quik continues to make some ok product as standards go, but they still will not sell to small shops that help make them. Not if the big shops squawks and for them to claim they are trying to protect their image when they fill the shelve of dillards, and other big box stores it the joke of the century. I would like to wish them well…but well…they already are. I am ready for a change. I will wear FUBU before I wear Quik.

18

looks like a label bashing session …

is this just a case of the haves and have nots ???

yes there are some smart cookies that run these businesses , and without a doubt selling surfboards to the masses is more about your skills in business than your ability as a surfer/shaper …

it took me a long time to get over that one …

there are plenty of smart cookies running many different businessses …

and im sure theres guys running lightbulb businesses who reckon the other guys selling lightbulbs are tossers because there doing well at it …

from a surfboard perspective , both retailers and big labels have bitchslapped board builders and cheapened our livelyhood …

idiots with no real experience in board building decided to sell us all out because they werent satisfied with making 100% mark up on clothing alone , so for an extra margin on boards its a wipeout for an industry …

but thats life , so no point going on , because things have changed …

on the other hand its enevitable , as the whole world has gone global and it was only a matter of time before the surfboard industry suffered the same fate as most other industries have gone through …

the surfboard industry is very different tho , it relies on people who know what there doing , to get crew on the right board for there skill level and just get crew on decent equipment …

as the surfing industry has gone more global , the consumer ultimatly loses , yes the price goes down , but the service goes down further …

so now you have more surfers with proportionatly less knowledgable people to guide them …

since ive been on the goldy , im shocked at how many crew are just plane riding the wrong boards …

i see 10 brands in a shop and you would swear they have all come off the same machine …

youve got some of the worlds best surfers and they couldnt tell you the first thing about design and what works and why …

because so many of the crew with the knowledge have been sold out for cheap imports …

so now you have gifted individuals , with a lifetime of design knowledge , pushing wheelbarrows on building sites and mowing lawns …

while mass produced boards are being pushed out of multichained retail outlets on the uneducated consumer by some 20 year old just parroting off the sales pitch given by the brand manager …

but the blame can be spread all round …

these crew pushing wheelbarrows , also had other options …

if you want to remain a cottage industry and do the same thing in the same way everyday , it will catch up with you eventually …

from what im seeing now , it can only get worse …

there is no room for more shapers to come through the ranks and learn design skills , so you will have less and less crew who actually understand whats going on …

so whos to blame for that ???

basically everyone involved in profiteering at the expense of real service …

this includes both retailers and labels for encouraging cheaper imports and mass produced boards , plus board builders who wanted to keep producing cheap rubbish to keep people coming back for disposable surfboards …

its a run away train now …

just find a safe corner and hope its not to painful when it finnally stops , if it ever does …

no point crying , coz its happening , no point blaming anyone , coz its happening …

solo , take a leaf from down here , if its a surf label its cool …

in fact its cooler if its not one of the big three …

but thats an aussie tradition , to back the underdog …

real surfers dont wear labels , unless they work for the company …

regards

BERT

19

Wow Bert,

I like so many of you points, I don’t know wear to start. I also like the underdog. Always have. They are usually those shapers who really have more of a clue.

Have you ever heard of Smith and Hawken? The guy sold high priced and very well made garden tools imported from Europe. Everyone said no one would spend that money on garden tools in AMerican, yet he made lots of money and provided great service.

Thats how I see the shaper end of this competing with Asia and Surftech etc. I like Birdwells old line, “Quality is our gimick.” with that gimick you will have fewer complaints and a longer run.

20

…well, I dont know, but I build the Billabong boards in S America…the guys came to my workshop and wants several boards…just that…(for me)