Thinking back to Rohan blue foam experiment and Benny’s technique, any of the old timers know why Linden quit making his epoxy Recycler boards?
I had one in the early 90’s and it was one of the best boards I ever owned.
I also though the idea of re-using your scrap cut offs and making it into a board was a great idea as well.
Why did he stop making them?
Was it the delamm problem or the bad epoxy available to him in those days?
Sure would like to get my hands on another…
He was sponging rail cut offs from everyone in the north county area and he ended up loosing his supply when others tuned in that he was getting his blanks for free and they could use their cut offs the same way.
Finally the foam material showed it’s weak points and that was the final ending. Only to have it resurface over and over and over giving all epoxy boards a reputation for delams.
What is wrong with 2# EPS??? Doesn’t leak, doesn’t delam, easy to work with, good break strength, lighter than ultralight, stronger than blue, great color, UV stable, etc., etc. etc. Sorry, got a bit off the subject.
…Greg, I think the problem is the cosmetic thing for a SUrf shop show board…
…the surface is not “nice” like PU foam…alright, you can say that you should put spackle or whatever, but ist not the same…
…the big guys need to sale boards…
One,
How exactly was the recycler made using off-cuts?
Any pictures of the board?
Personally I think the cosmetic appearence “problem” with EPS is greatly overstated. And always has been. The only ones who ever notice are other board builders. In all the years of selling to retailers, I’ve never had a customer say they thought something in the foam didn’t look right. They don’t even see the difference and never have. Even experienced guys. Board builders are often their own worst critics and to put their own version of what is nice cosmetically above every other aspect of the board is ridiculas.
20 years ago Rusty told me at one of the Surf Expos that EPS/epoxy boards rode so good it was scary. Isn’t that the point? Isn’t that what we’re trying to achieve? Why would someone turn there back on performance like that? Profits??? Why has todays top builder been quoted saying time and again that epoxy boards last too long and building them would cut his numbers? Is this a quality attitude?
Bottom line is that there are a number of issues anyone who wants to make a better product will have to contend with. Being sacked by the rest of the industry with lame excuses like the one Reverb just mentioned is the perfect example. Funny, Surftech has a different looking cosmetic and everyone is climbing all over each other to get involved … no worries about a different cosmetic when the moneys good. Just keep making those poopies … your Lawnboy awaits.
They kind of looked like Rohan’s experiment below only a high performance shape:
I liked the idea of the multiple glue lines for added strength mabe it was my imagination. I believe posted a brewer gun that was made from 100 or so pieces of wood strips glued togethor.
The boards were thin high performance with good float and alot of speed could be a memory issue but I swear they rode better than the current surftech imitations.
Linden took the off cuts from his templating and planed then into straight strips, glued them up and shaped them into boards kind of like he does with his agave boards and others do with balsa. I always thought it was a neat idea didn’t know he was scarfing the remnants from others to make a buck, I always thought he was pushing the ecological aspect of re-using waste products hence the name Recycler. But based on what Greg said I’m probably wrong and it was just a gimic although it was a damn good board till I left it in my car in the sun.
Wahoo I have some old video that maybe I can scrub a shot from for you…
As far as using 2lb eps blanks, not alot around here to pick from off the shelf. Jim has the only product locally and it’s comes only in one design. So if you aren’t gonna buy big blocks and cut your own which I don’t plan to or pay the expense of shipping them over from the mainland, we’re kind of out of luck here in Hawaii unless Greg knows of a local manufacturer here in Hawaii… Not like I can go over to Grubby’s and pick up a couple of 2lb EPS blanks in any size and shape I want like I can get from Ken or SFoam…
Hawaii has an EPS manufacturer. I can’t remember the name but their on Oahu and you can probably find them in the phone book under “insulation”.
Thanks One, that’s what I was picturing. Would be super easy to do with 2" #2 EPS as you could get a template for each strip, cut out on a band saw, and after glue up the only shaping you would have to do is some sanding to smooth the transition from one strip to another. Add your balsa rails and skins and your shapeing worrys are over.
Yea Wahoo
that’s exactly how Benny1 does his…
Sound like a neat idea with either 2lb or blue XPS like Rohan did.
Maybe inter layer it with 1/8" Dcell in between
Greg
we have one but they sell blocks not blanks.
I rather buy a blank that preformed to a specific rocker/profile like what you and Ken are selling and what SFoam is selling. Not into the hotwiring stuff from blocks like JIP and other guys here.
CMP already makes his own 2lb stringered blanks I think he cuts’em once a year, but he still buys and does alot of preshaped-urethane from the board factory in Kapolei. Just easier I guess getting a machined piece of foam than sdtarting from a block.
Richardson is the only one I know here selling 1.4lb and 1.8lb EPS blanks on island but it only come2 in one style at this point. At 20 grand a plug I don’t blame him…
From what I hear, Epoxy and EPS seems to be taking off here so maybe we’ll soon have an EPS blank distributor on island as well.
You guys on the mainland have it good as far as land shipping in getting pre-cut stuff from Kolstoff or SFoam and other CNC-machine places. I don’t believe the foam blowers here have a CNC machine to cut you out a blank per spec like Benny can get up in his area. The foam sold here is mostly in bulk for industrial use and construction.
Hola,
This is what I plan to build trough 2006 (I take my time…): a 125litre sailboard made from EPS+XPS slices+2 wood stringers
My worries are about what to use for glueing:
-just non-solvent contact cement
-just epoxy resin
-a vertical glass layer with epoxy resin between each 2 slices (did you say you want stiffness?)
rad graphics mate.
one of the shapers in our factory used to do a variation of that design, for his sailboards. huge blocks of e.p.s cut to rough profile with a home made hot wire contraption.
the strips then glued together, with stringers thrown in here or there, to form an area wide enough for him to get his outline out of.
from memory he would glue them up with an epoxy/q-cell brew,
then into some big ass clamps!
i think he even would glue a sheet of divynycell onto the bottom. for rigidity or stability??
ps your english is fine. dont need to apologise!!
This one was made with beige extruded polystyrene I found in the Leroy Merlin (the french equivalent to home depot). I glued about 20 strips of foam. Glue lines are expoxy mixed with dark wood dust. Most people think it’s made out of balsa. Worked great during 2 first years and then it started to delam …
…a brewer gun that was made from 100 or so pieces of wood strips glued togethor.
The boards were thin high performance with good float and alot of speed could be a memory issue but I swear they rode better than the current surftech imitations. …
Mine is not a brewer gun but a 9’10" home built longboard gun. I built this using a hollow structure and 100 or so wood strips. Building method is somewhere halfway between what Paul Jensen does and strip-planked canoes.
Pierre!!!
I’d be very pleased if you could post or send to me (david@tranor.com) some detailed pics from that brown XPS slices longboard, both when finished and when delammed, if it’s possible.
From that pic I guess you built a board longer than the standard 250cm long sheets, since alternate joints can be “seen”.
OT: Could it be possible for me and 2 friends to share with you that “wave” on the Gironde river???. If localism is sometimes hard at some “lots-of-waves-beaches” I can’t even imagine how difficult it should be at the river.
Pierre!!!
I’d be very pleased if you could post or send to me (david@tranor.com) some detailed pics from that brown XPS slices longboard, both when finished and when delammed, if it’s possible.
From that pic I guess you built a board longer than the standard 250cm long sheets, since alternate joints can be “seen”.
OT: Could it be possible for me and 2 friends to share with you that “wave” on the Gironde river???. If localism is sometimes hard at some “lots-of-waves-beaches” I can’t even imagine how difficult it should be at the river.
Unfortunately I have very few pictures of that board and no numeric camera. Board is 9’4" and was glassed heavy (4x6oz top and 3x6oz bottom !). The xps is from insulation panels that are 3cm thick and 250 cm long. The bottom of the board delamned last spring, one day when the air temp was around 28-30°C while the water was still very cold (14-15°C). The entire surface of the bottom was delamned except for the 20 glue lines. The delammed part was separated from the foam and had inflated up, held only by the glue lines. It looked like an air mat …
I striped off the bottom. Then with a razor blade, I cut some lines on the entire bottom so that It made a chekered pattern with squares of about 1cm x 1 cm. I then put a new lam with tinted resin and screwed up the tint … But this is a different story.
Regarding the mascaret. I do have some secret spot that I’m not willing to share but I can take you to the Saint Pardon spot if you want. Where do you live ?
That’s exactly the same stuff we buy in FL and make into blanks. You just need a rocker template, a harp and a variac. I agree, someone over there will figure they can make some good extra money making blanks. Isn’t a big thing at all.
By the way, if you want too get that recycler look with the glue lines all you need to do in between the 2" pieces is to spray paint a color on the inside of the foam. After glueing and shaping it’ll look like a colored glue up.
When I need it I know I can always hit CMP up for an EPS blank if I needed it and he built one that I was looking for.
Is there a higher chance of delamming by gluing up 2" strips instead of working with a single block?
Sound like Linden had major delamming problems… I always though it was the early resin and epoxy techniques used back then. Even my Australian Bamboo Surfboards epoxy delamm’d.
I do remember though that the Linden Epoxy surf’d more like the Point Blanks opexy I had in feel so maybe they were using the same stuff…
Will your RR distributor be selling the blanks you’re doing for Ken over here along with your resin down the road?
I like the idea of having a pre-rockered/profiled EPS blank to start with.
Delams had to do with the foam being XPS. EPS isn’t a problem that way. I’ll keep my ears open on the blank thing. You know there’s a guy, Mike Croce who used to work for me in FL who knows how to do it all. Lives in Haleiwa and works at Chart House.
Hey Oneula,
Linden made the "recyclers " out of profiles cut from XPS blue building insulation. I remember the advertising stating that one in three boards were from the offcuts… I was inspired at the time to do some boards the same way, and they worked really well, for a while…
Then, as has been stated numerous times on Sways, the glass started blowing off in big patches.
I see the pix of the blank with XPS stringers… I say don’t go there, theres a fundamental problem with that shit:- It’s like putting grease on your foam before you laminate. No shit, avoid it, even for Stringers. As Bert has stated here too - " The stuff is great… for insulating my factory…"
The possibilities for offcuts of EPS profiles however, is very exciting.
