So to go along with that...I thought it was time for this relevent topic.
I always figured kicking was just natural, like swinging your arms when you walk, you dont need to swing your arms when you walk, but its just a natural thing to do when your legs are moving.
Same with paddling, its just natural to kick your legs in time to the paddling. You see a lot of little kiddies kicking, but as people get older they tend to be able to isolate the movement to just their arms.
Some people just raise one foot in the air too. Usually the one with the leggie on it.
I like all the conspiracy theories about speed and energy tho, kinda like all the theories on flex.
i mainly catch waves by paddling toward the pocket. spinning and one or two kicks. no paddle at all a lot of the time.when i need to paddle and whatever i sometimes i kick but not all the time. but then again im determined. to those who find it annoying well, its pretty easy to find annoying things about people for instance i dont like bald people in the lineup. id rather a kicker then a bald guy
Kickers annoy me .I never could understand why they do it.
But , I surf a lot of slopey waves - occasionally one comes along that you have to paddle really really hard to get on to , when that happens I’ve noticed I have a habit of pressing my chin on to the deck and hissing while I dig in strenuously … I’m certain some people find that annoying.
I also usually wear a surf hat ( cos I’m bald ) , some dudes likely find that annoying.
I’ve been known to ride longboards - that annoys people.
Longboarders annoy me - when I ride shortboards.
The dude that beat me to that wave annoys me,people that paddle inside annoy me , people that get in my way annoy me,young sods that paddle around with haughty expressions annoy me, in fact so much about surfing and surfers gets up my nose I sometimes wonder why I do it.
I don't like chunky peanut butter, I kick when I have chunky peanut butter..
I like grilled cheese sandwiches...
I kick for whatever reason, it's subconcious I suppose. Maybe all the years of competitve swimming and water polo. My arms dont seem to work without my legs and vice versa. The exception is on the longboard where my legs have nowhere to go.
There have been times where I have surfed with a sprained ankle where I can't kick and I find myself missing waves that I would normally catch. Anyways for what it's worth it seems to help me. I could care less if others find it ugly.
[quote="$1"]
I kick for whatever reason, it's subconcious I suppose. Maybe all the years of competitve swimming and water polo. My arms dont seem to work without my legs and vice versa.
[/quote]
Wow thats wierd? When I brush my teeth, I feel the need to take a piss.....And visa versa, when I piss I feel the need to brush mt teeth?
Strange.
one of the best things about hawaii is being able shishi in your pants when the calling comes. And it seems like for me when ever the calling comes it means a big set is on the way. I think its the leading pressure gradient on the bladder that does it to you.
As far as kicking while paddling who cares. Does anybody tell this to bethany hamilton?
If its based on esoterics then most of surfers pre 80’s would say all this arial stuff looks just plain stupid two moves and then a wipe out. Belongs in a skate park not on a wave. Pretty disrespectful to treat such rare wonders of nature like your CB slapping around your woman. But then the young whipper snappers say the old farst couldn’t surf for beans anyway.
too each his own
but that is one ugly sea lion
Aloha Bernie, I have been told that making shishi can attract sharks so I started doing it while still walking out in the shallow water, As for the feet kicking, I always felt it was just wasting energy and I can't remember if Bethany kicked before she lost her arm, but she is an amazing girl. Aloha,Kokua
LOL
i kick because i can =)
shishi ok just no unchi in the water
[quote=“$1”]
"As far as kicking while paddling who cares. "
this thread, It’s not just about how it looks or the fact that I think it’s unnecessary,
it’s also about the shark attracting noise this flailing makes. I don’t like to
see people kicking like a mad man because where I surf it’s sharky. I know 3
people on this coast who have been bit in the last 8 years along with many
other sightings and near misses. It’s my fear of being eaten that has made me
question why people do this around me. Would you want to be one of the farthest
guy out in a sharky line-up having to sit and watch the guy next to you paddle and kick like
crazy only to leave you sitting there alone? I sure don’t. Hawaii is just as good of a place to get bit as any. More people die from shark
attacks in Hawaii than in California, so think about what I’m saying next time
your out surfing that early morning or late evening session with only a few guy
and this scenario happens to you. My bet is you’ll wish the guy wasn’t a
kicker…like I do.
[quote=“$1”]
That’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard.
I grew up surfing and still surf in some of the most shark infested waters on oahu ewa beach(shark country) and barbers point. Some of the worlds largest tigers have been caught just along the outside reefs of pearl harbor and hickam thats a well known fact in hawaii. Pu’uloa at the south western tip of pearl harbor is home of one of oahu’s famous shark gods known for seducing women in their human form and then eating after they revert to their natural form.
I along with many others in my lineup have seen sharks 300 yards off shore thrashing on the outer reefs at low tide as big as boats, Scary enough to make the bravest of watermen on 12 foot tankers paddle so quickly to shore they ended up standing on the beach before you could realize what was going on.
Where i surf its mostly hammerheads that peruse the lineups and keep us company but we get the pointed nose man in the grey suit shooting through the lineups all the time. I’ve been out many times all by myself 100 yards from shore and run into sharks over 10-12 feet big ugly wide ones coming head first in the wave straight at me. As a kid I was always the guy sitting the furtherest out waiting for the biggest wave of the set. Many times I wasn’t the only thing on the wave from the reports I would get from the pack sitting inside of me. Unfortunately they usually didn’t tell you that until after you wiped out and lost your board. Made most of us excellent body surfers because of that knowledge.
Most people are just plain stupid about sharks and its their fear that gets them killed. Our parents used to wrestle sharks in the dark that got caught in our moi nets and couldn’t breathe. We used to hang the ones who died at the paddle out spot as a warning to all about what was swimming out in the breaks. As a kid we used to have baby sharks swim under you and run their sandpaper skin against your leg. Plus where we surf the water is always murky from the side shore winds. I can always will a shark when I’m sitting out in the lineup all by myself far from shore at sharkcountry on a flat day just by thinking about them and sure enough up pops the fin and you have no waves to catch to go in. Sharks have the inate ability to sense fear and fear equals food. Some of my friends can smell them because they have a distinct fishy odor.
Anyway the point is when your time is up your time is up you can’t do anything about that.
But if you are akamai then you know that sharks normally feed in the early dawn and dusk or after a heavy storm when alot of dead things end up in the sea. Sharks also will normally show themselves to you first so if you are paying attention you will see them skimming 25-50 yards on the perimeter checking you out as a possible meal. They aren’t stupid and don’t just attack their prey blindly. They always stalk their prey first, sizing up the situation and make the decision before they know its okay to go in for the hit like the great predators they are. So they will tell you that they are looking at you as a meal if you aren’t just being a clueless “catch as many waves as I can” typical surfer. Part of this I think we learned from our elders who could sit on the shore and see the fish in the water with their fisherman polarized sunglasses and then we’d have to drop everything and head out to lay net for our dinner. Finally most people don’t realize that allot of times sharks come in from behind from the shore side or surf break as you are paddling back out checking the sets. If you sense something might be happening its a good idea to look behind you in the shallows as you are paddling out to see if your being stalked by a fin.
The problem we have in hawaii is the over abundance of turtles which is a favorite meal of tigers, There’s been more attacks ever since the turtles got protected status. Also paddling through turtle poo the size of humans back out to the lineup makes you believe there’s been a raw sewage spill somewhere up current when it’s just turtle droppings. Personally I’m with Jay and think our local winter time protected seals (they know they are protected too) are more of a nuisance swimming through and popping their big ugly heads at the wrong time to make you uhnkoh in your pants in the lineup.
I don’t mind the kicking, but what i do mind is sitting out in the line up on a good big day and while scratching to make it out have the pack see a big old shark swim straight at us in the next set wave and then have all the hot little girlies in their string bikinis, the groms, and the beginners begin screaming at the tops of their lungs and paddling like a scene from jaws to get to shore. All that does is cause trouble for everyone else but it happens all the time these days. Its funny but when a big man in the grey suit comes calling all the longboarders pull up all their limbs on top their boards while the shortboarders pack together like a school of fish, then everyone turns to look at the spongers and they all smile for some reason. Unfortunately the spongers usually don’t look too happy. Happens all the time…
Just be akamai when and where you surf and if you respect the man in the grey suit he’ll tell you when it’s time to leave the party. Also if you get cut and start bleeding the proper etiquette no matter how small is to leave the lineup immediately.
onuela, well put. I surf pretty much only early morning ( pre sunrise sometimes ), and have never had trouble. There are some sharks not that far offshore ( i know a few fishermen who tell me that ), but they have never worried us. After rain im a bit wary early morning, but hey, this morning was raining, and my mate and i had the place to ourselves, and it was good, so we just went out.
Sometimes, you get that feeling, you know the one, something isn't right, or you smell something that's fishy, but rotten. Then, i'll go in.
If your times up its up. How many people die each year from shark attacks compared to
1) Obesity related problems
2) Car accidents
3) Drug and alcohol abuse.
The odds are much better being in the water than being on land!
Well oneula maybe you just get lucky. In the 15 years I lived in Hawaii I heard many stories that didn’t end as peacefully as yours. And although you have many stories about sharks you don’t list any that involve actual attacks? Like i said, maybe your one of the lucky ones. My dad in the 50’s had a friend he was snorkling with get eaten right there at Barbers Point from a tiger. Never found one piece of him. I was at Free Hawaii on the West Side when that boogie boarder got his whole side bitten off in 1992. I watched his friends put fingers in his gushing arteries as he bled to death right there on the beach. And like I said above, I can introduce you to three people I know here in Cal. who have been bitten, two involving full on helicopter medivac’s. So I have personally seen the other side of the threat you try to pass off as no big deal. Where I live it’s not Tigers it’s Great White’s. No one I know had any sign or sighting before they were bitten and dragged 20 feet underwater, just BOOM. And any feeling they may have had wouldn’t matter because they have that feeling all the time. There’s no mystical vibe you can tap into only the physical facts about what attracted them to you or the area your surfing in. You just have to accept that your surfing in a dangerous area and act/surf accordingly. I surf in the heart of the red triangle and there’s no shark free time to surf and no safe time to be in the water only safe surfing practices to lower the odds of being detected. I don’t smoke, do drugs, over eat, drive fast or hang out in lightning storms but I do surf 200+ days a year in shark infested waters so I say my odds of an encounter are pretty good and worthy of concideration. Every time you get in around here you could get bit, same as Hawaii. Every splash, every loud sound, every hoot or holler and every time someone pee’s or kicks their feet could be the trigger that leads to the next attack. So maybe my perspective on this subject is a little different and I’ve been scared into fearing everything I think might be an attracter. But don’t kid your self about Hawaii or Oahu it’s as bad as California, just check the stats.
Hawaii -96 attacks and 8 deaths since the late 1800’s (Of that 96 & 8 total for all of Hawaii there were 29 attacks on Oahu and 4 deaths)
California is the same with 94 & 6. And of the 13 world zones that records are kept Hawaii is 6th over all.
That might not sound like much to the ones who feel lucky but it does to me. Especially since the top 3 places in the world are California, South Africa and Australia and all because of the Great White. So with that in mind I still think it’s a good idea to lower your chances of sending out the wrong signals. And it would be great if people surfing around me did the same thing. If I was hunting with you in bear country i wouldn’t want you to be covered in hamburger juice or doing anything I though might attract or anger a bear. And even if you told me it was no big deal, you did it all the time and never had a problem and that I would see signs before I got attacked, I think I would still want you to clean yourself up, keep quite and stop sending the wrong signals. The ocean is no different. People should respect the dangers of being in the ocean an minimize theirs and others chances of attack by learning to paddle better. That’s my local situation so that’s where I’m coming from with this, along with the fact that I don’t think it helps enough to warrant the danger and it just plain annoying to hear and see. But hey, that’s just me. Kick on all you kickers, but be ready to hear about it from the unlucky people out there.
I don't do the flailing kick when going for a wave.
Anyone who paddles in front of me while I go for a wave and does the flailing kick-water-in face thing instantly earns moron status.
However - there is a propulsion method i sometimes use while heading back out - the pendulous effect of swinging your ankle fast up to kick yourself in the arse. It works...and gives one arm a rest.
The paddleboard racers use it too...I think...
One hand on nose, one arm stroking, opposite leg doing the pendulous swing up. Just don't kick it hard back down. Lower slower, swing fast.
JD
If you convince the guy next to you to stop kicking do you think your chances of getting picked off increase or decrease?
you know I have heard the exact same stores about choosing the colors of your board or your shorts. Some say a bright red or any neon colored board bottoms or boardshorts will make you more of a target. People also said not to wear those bling bling NIXON like watches when you surf.
On the other hand I have heard the exact opposite about splashing, loud percussive slaps on the water’s surface are used to drive fish and sharks away.We used that most of our youth to paipai net and feed our families. And if that doesn’t work a big punch in the nose or gouge in the eye will be your life saver if you can bypass the mouth somehow.
And yes I have had classmates that just plain dissappeared surfing no sign or body recovered as well as guys I know with large chunks missing from their limbs because of a massive shark bites where I surf. And guess how those guys with less paddle powered catch waves now? They kick like mad just like Bethany does today with just one hand.
Ever study what most people are doing when they get hit?
I bet you’ll find that most are either just sitting there doing nothing or they are paddling back out or to another peak. Almost never heard of anyone getting hit taking off while they are kicking madly. Wonder why that’s the case since they are the prime target. The closest incident I know of is Bethany Hamilton’s attack where she and Alana Blanchard had some silly act like a porpoise thing they did in the line up.
Kicking seems to be a function of board size and take off technique. Some places and waves you can take off without paddling at all some places like makaha and others where waves are thicker you’ll notice more kicking. Also haven’t you notice that kicking usually starts the further the paddler falls behind in catching a wave just watch next time its a natural tendancy for anyone who swims. So its more a technique issue and board size thing where sometimes both don’t match up.
I agree great whites attack differently but most surfers wear those ugly black seal outfits in the fits place. Maybe if everyone wore those white wetsuits slater wears every now and then(does he know something or is he green) there’d be less attacks on rubber coated surfers. But a top tier predator doesn’t become one by attacking without stalking.
If you surf in shark territory ALWAYS assume there is a shark in the water, Then understand what their food is doing like is something schooling in the same area? If you are always looking for them they will show. If you insulate yourself from them, then you’ll just be their potential next meal. We are taught as hawaiians never ever disrespect the ocean, the waves and those who realm it is. Just doing that will make you more attentive of your surroundings.
If you are really worried about your chances of getting hit then always surf with a bunch of sponger friends and you’ll reduce your odds but only slightly. Otherwise make sure you drop in on the kicking paddler so you both are riding the same wave and you aren’t the guy left behiind stuck out all by yourself. Also, surf with one of those retro boys on their wiliwili alaias and olos cause from what the kupuna’s say wiliwili the best shark bait. Finally the beach boys coined the local phrase “shark bait” for all the haole tourists entering the surf with their blinding white skin and gym shorts. Imagine that sight from below as the tourist is treding water to stay afloat. My uncles on the other hand lovingly called certain versions of that “spoon meat” but thats another story.
I think the case has been stated here, and the conclusion is: yes it does help.
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it is a natural motion: humans alternate walkers, when one legs moves so does the alternate arm.
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on HPSB you are pretty close to swimming and your legs are submerged, so kicking does help(my bodyboard is more bouyant than my shortboards)
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it is habitual for people who have swam.
4)for the one last kick before popping up gets your weight shifted back and keeps the nose up.
5).It allows you to use your abs a little more in the stroke.
Once finals are over I will see if i can take my board into the pool at school and do some time trails with kicking v non kicking.
sorry billywillgo but i think you should consider minding your own business wrt peoples choices of activity to enjoy themselves.
Sure I’ll do that…just for you. (But it seems to me when I’m in the water with people it’s all of our business.)