Do you kick your feet when you paddle for a wave? Do you really think it helps you go faster?
I just can’t see how it could help. Obviously this is a short board thing but I feel that when your trying to catch a wave on a short board your trying for a quick burst of speed while keeping a low drag position. Strong, hard an consistantly even paddling strokes with your feet together in a low drag position seems to me to be the best way to catch a wave. Not paddling like a mad man while you slam your feet repeatedly into the water like your on a boogie board. I think doing that just slows you down, makes a lot of noise, makes you look like a goon and is the best shark attracting noise a surfer could make.
So what do you all think? Do you do it? Do you think it helps? Give me your vote. Kick or no kick?
Have you ever tried to dig really hard when you try to catch a wave. It ends up with your feet moving a little. I think the kicking of the feet in better surfers is more or less a combination of that natural movement and a little extra up and down movement thrown in for the heck of it.
Way back I learned to use my legs along with my arms to help propel longboards faster. This was with both arms pulling at the same time, but it also works when you alternate. If you know what you’re doing it works.
HOWEVER: the bio-mechanics of the system works against speed by alternativity pushing forward and pulling back on the moving mass as the system(you ) moves forward.
I completely agree with you, it does nothing. Or it at least does too little for it to be worth doing. A friend of mine does it very obnoxiously and will turn around (I have the right of way in this situation) and splash me in the eyes so I can’t see (not so I can’t get the wave, just because he thinks it helps). Another vote for NO KICKING.
Try this extremely simple test. Don’t paddle. Do you catch the wave? Now, don’t paddle, kick your feet, do you catch the wave? Perhaps you get old (someday, yes, it will happen) and your shoulders don’t work as well as they used to. I think you will find yourself kicking a bit more. Perhaps you ride a sponge and wonder why the hell people are even paddling. Useless.
I’m a life long no kicker. Until I found it helps me get into waves on my 5-8 fish. Now I just kick on the 5-8. I get enough foot power going to push the board a bit faster. It definitely looks like shit, though. Not as bad as the Huntington hop or the ‘radical’ lip bash on a one foot wave. Mike
It’s an instinctive reaction to try to force the tail of the board up higher to plane better to paddle faster to catch the wave. I have no idea if it actually helps or not.
Then there’s that bicycle leg pumping some of the longboarders do when they paddle, and their legs are nowhere near the water. It used to be I’d only see girls do it but now the epidemic has spread to the guys.
Kicking definetly helps when you need an extra push! Think about boogie boarders, alot of them never even paddle with thier arms to get into waves. Sure their legs are hanging off the back more, but when riding shortboards or even shorter boards like fishes your legs still hang off the back and drag in the water. Think about how a board gets narrow towards the tail. The water is colapsing onto your legs from the displacement of your wieght and the width of the board especially if you are late in the take off or if the wave is slow or even too fast(being more level than downward). Then again I am 6'4" and I ride a 6'0" and my legs probably hang off more than others
I personally only kick sometimes if I feel it is necessary. I find that it helps when you need a little more momentum.
I'm 6'4" ,200 LBS(without my 5/4MM full suit) and I have size 14 shoe....and I ride a 6'0". I could kick the hell out of the water if I wanted to but I don't because I don't need to and I don't think you get ANY positive addition to your momentum by throwing your legs weight around and slamming your feet over and over into the water. Every time you lift a leg up into the air you shift weight forward and that drops the nose of your board down effecting your boards glide and it's speed. Every time you slam that foot down into the water your throwing momentum backwards as walrus said," The bio-mechanics of the system works against speed by alternativity pushing forward and pulling back on the moving mass as the system(you ) moves forward." And the deeper you put your feet in the water while kicking the more drag is created. Boogie boarders legs are much more underwater and they are also wearing fins that flex. Continually kicking legs with fins that are submerged underwater is much different then slapping feet onto the surface of the water from above. Anyone who thinks they go faster by doing it is most likely mistaking the speed they feel between kicks as some kind of an increase instead of recognizing the drag when their feet are slapping the water.
I can only see the argument for an increase in speed being solved by an in the water time test where a person paddled a short distance kicking and not kicking to see which is faster. But no matter what the result of speed is, as far as style goes people who kick like this are lacking. There's no flow to a spastic foot flopper, no grace involved in making repeated large splashes with your feet while you paddle, and it makes you look like a beginner who has not yet mastered the art of surfing or built up the upper body strength needed to paddle.
And as far as sharks go...if your surfing a beach like I am where there have been multiple shark attacks and sightings the sights and sounds of some barney kicking like there's no tomorrow send's chills down your spin and it also makes you want to tell them to stop it.
Wish I had video back late 70’s when I was a surfing kid of my friend Rusty and brother Jimmy, back when both of them together probably weighed no more than 120lbs. Kicking - paddling for waves at Makaha looked like a cockroach being electrocuted. His paddling might not have been pretty but once on the wave everyone knew the surfing skill even at 10-12 years old Rusty had, plus he NEVER missed a wave he ‘paddled’ for… longboard, shortboard, bodyboard, mcdonalds tray, canoe, SUP, whatever, surfed them all just as great either regular or goofy footed, knee high to 3xoh.
I am not a kicker and I find it ugly and annoying......but.......it was studied by one of the mags a few years back and kicking does create slightly more paddling speed. Also watch Kelly Slater's small board technique at Pipeline very closely. You will see that he burries the tail of his board as he goes up the face then uses a very powerful kick to propel himself forward and down the face.....he uses the same technique Mike Stewart does on his sponge. Surfline once ran a close up feature of kelly's technique. When he is riding those rediculously small boards at pipe he isusing equal parts arms and legs to catch the wave.
Catching waves on a HPSB is more akin to swimming than paddling (when using the 2 extremes as benchmarks: swimming with no board and paddling on a true paddleboard, on which the entire body is elevated above the water), and a swimmer who swims with his arms only swims slower than a swimmer who also kicks his legs, so....
You can debate the aesthetics all you want, but efficient leg kicking (there is a difference between an efficient kick an flailing one's feet wildly) on a submerged board & body will increase thrust. And as mako stated above, this has been studied multiple time before, always with the same conclusion.
I can't believe this is a thread topic, but whatever.....
I don't kick much. It makes it too hard for your buddies to give your tailblock a push to get you over the edge on that wave they couldn't quite catch, but want you to have. Of course, if you just burned somebody and they're trying to grab your leash, kicking could be a defense mechanism.
A friend I surf with relates his kicking as “disturbing” the wave, which creates a pocket for his tail to sink into and get into the energy of the wave, helping him catch it…
Not sure if kicking is why he catches a lot of waves but whatever it takes right? I don’t give it much thought. Just go!
In regards to Sharkcountry’s comment on longboard kicking for speed, many years ago in Waikiki I saw some young Hawaiian kids fly out to the line up from the beach on longboards, alternately kicking with each stroke. Never saw someone paddle so fast. Now when I’m riding my HPLB in bigger surf and my arms are dead, watching that next set roll in that will certainly take me out (you all know what I’m talking about) it definitley helps to use the leg kick technique to get me to the outside. That and shear survival instinct!
back in my tanker days nothing seemed smoother than a half powered one leg pump and two hand push up from the deck take- off on a smooth wave. It is an experience all surfers could relate to. It is one of the smoothest transitions from static to motion and can be blended seamlessly into a wave.
I guess it is the farthest thing from frothing kids having tantrums.
Have any of you ever swam before? Kicking while doing the freestyle stroke (crawl) makes you faster. It is only 30% or so of the propulsion on that stroke IIRC but it is still a source of propulsion. As long as you are kicking from your hips and not your knees I can see it being beneficial to catching a wave.
Now, when I was a swimmer I was very much an upper body swimmer and why I was good at distance freestyle and butterfly; my strokes are good enough that I don’t usually need to kick but I do find it seems like it helps me in certain surfing conditions, like when the waves are weak or rolling
I'm a screamer. I scream...loud, really loud. I get all sorts of waves. Usually because i scream so loud people freak out and think I'm a few carad short of a full deck.
I don't paddle, or kick..........I just float and scream.............I get lot's of waves that way.
You should see me ...err, I mean hear me as I scream going over the falls. quite a sight.
