For some reason the surfers in Hawaii almost act superior to surfers from any other part of the world when measuring surf/wave size. I would think that now that Teachopoo is surfed on a regular basis, some of the dudes from hawaii would stop acting like they are the only ones with powerful waves.
When I was younger you either classified a wave by the face or the back. After that, it seemed like thier was a movement to measure them by the face size. I think that made sense since there are soooo many things that determine the back size (reef, sand bars, underwater shelfs, beach break, point break, etc…). It seems like there still seems to be some that like to measure by the “backs” and over the past several years has called it “hawaiian”. I understand the point, but EVER wave is different, every break is different. Obviously a 10 foot “back” at teahopoo is much bigger than a 10 foot face in Florida but why make the descrpency more? It seems to me like a 10 foot face at teahopoo would be at least a little more similar to a 10 foot face in Florida (still teahopoo obviously has MUCH more power, but at least we can agree on the face size). It makes me laugh when someone says “hawaiian” because Teahopoo has to be the MOST powerful wave in the world (sorry pipe) and it is NOT located in Hawaii. It seems like some of those HUGE barrels there are like 3-5 foot backs or “hawaiian”. Thats why I never understood it, at some places it seems like the backs are 1/3-1/4 times as SMALL as the face, yet at others it is about 1/2 the size. Should we start a new classification called “Poo”?
btw, why does it seem like the houles from hawaii seem to act more cocky and more “local” than the actual hawaiians/Polys? I NEVER have understood that. I have a bunch of Tongan, Somoan and 1 pure Hawaiian friend and they never seem to act like some of the houle surfers that grew up in Hawaii.
This thread isn’t really related to surfboard design/manufacturing at all so it’d probably go better on another forum. But since we’re here, I have just three sizes:
Not worth it – i’m on it – not worth it.
Every year the size needed to get passed the first “not worth it” scale gets larger and the size needed to not reach the other “not worth it” gets smaller!
In other words, I used to go out if it was larger than 1’ but smaller than, say, 15’. Now i’m just not interested unless it’s bigger than 3’ and less than 10’. Give it another ten years and the scale will compress even more and there will only be about five days a year I feel like surfing, ha!
Howzit rodH, Actually a lot of our surf predictions now have 2 wave sizes. One is the local version and the other is face size. They started this a couple of years ago so that visitors don't get confused thinking the waves are smaller than they are since we have to many drownings as it is.Aloha,Kokua
Makes sense, I can just picture little johnny going out and thinking it is “only” 4-5 feet.
Quote:
Howzit rodH, Actually a lot of our surf predictions now have 2 wave sizes. One is the local version and the other is face size. They started this a couple of years ago so that visitors don't get confused thinking the waves are smaller than they are since we have to many drownings as it is.Aloha,Kokua</blockquote></div>
that shows you how gnarly the old school guys were when they were measuring the backs of waves and they were 15’ out on those old logs…a lot of people think face size and are like “they didnt ride that big of waves”…old school big wave riding doesnt get the props it should because of that different way of measuring
i saw a thing on how they measure big waves nowadays and they use the surfer as a reference…say the rider is 5’…they stop the footage at the biggest part of the wave and measure how many times you can stack the surfer and there you get your guesstimate…i think thats the system billabong was using for their xxl awards, but maybe more technology has come in
Actually being hawaiian and having surfed here in Hawaii since the 60’s I think this new scale is both stupid and insulting to me as a surfer.
its’ all about litigation and how sue happy the world has become.
people drowned in the surf for centuries and decades with the old measurements and will continue to drown due to stupidity or ego even with the new ones. It’s only these past 10-15 years that the threat of litigation forced the “compliance change” to try and reduce the chance of a lawsuit…
Unless it’s waves on the northshore or makaha it doesn’t even seem worth it now to make the effort unless it at “advisory levels” which used to be 3-4’ in the old scale… Even the new scale 3-4’ on the northshore of oahu or kauai will still kick the butts of most coconut scented visitors so why bother?
for instance:
12 registered rescues at waikiki this weekend even with all the warnings and new measurement scale. Meanwhile it was another ugly and messy swell hardly worth the iphone-buzz the surf forecasters predicted for the weekend. I got at least three email “alert” messages from various services of the coming swell…
Who knows…
surfboards, fins and leashes may have to carry usage disclaimers like ladders pretty soon if this keeps up. You may even have to pass a surf/swim certification test or produce an operating permit before the lifeguards allow you into the water like they do in pools and lakes…(actually this is already being proposed in certain communities).
We seem to have lost the greatest lesson the ocean and surfing can teach us…
Which is there is a consequence for every action you take when you are out there no matter what.
If you can’t take some responsibility for that you shouldn’t be out there doing it.
I can understand where you are coming from oneula ,we are going through something similar in new zealand at the moment(although it hasnt reached surfing yet).It seems everything has to be governed by some type of legislation or standard or body.An accident is no longer an accident ,there must always be a reason and someone at fault.Its my personal belief that alot of it is being pushed by insurance companies wanting larger profits ,after all if johnny goes out and does something stupid and uses a product against manufactures instructions and gets killed ,it probably gives them grounds to not pay out life insurance…and if he was following manufactures instructions chances are the insurance company can recover some costs from the company(ok this is a bit of an exageration)but what other reason can there be for the need to have accountability for every situation in life??.
Its just a gravey train world full of bureaucrats(all chiefs and no indians) ,everything is so top heavey with adminstration ppl creating paper trails that they have almost forgotten about the actual industries underneath them and think that the paper trails they are making are the industry.
its’ all about litigation and how sue happy the world has become.
Unless it’s waves on the northshore or makaha it doesn’t even seem worth it now to make the effort unless it at “advisory levels” which used to be 3-4’ in the old scale… Even the new scale 3-4’ on the northshore of oahu or kauai will still kick the butts of most coconut scented visitors so why bother?
Interesting, figures the lawyers have something to do with it.
I have surfed Makaha a couple times, it didn’t seem to have near the power (or backside thickness) that the waves on the north shore have. Awesome shape though. North shore has never been breaking when I have been there, but from everything I see in the media, they look much more powerful than Makaha.
I would imagine Wakiki gets a ton of drownings, waaaaaay too many tourists thinking they are swimming in Lake Michigan. I would be willing to bet that Wakiki has more drownings than north shore simply based on who goes out.
There are basically three things that kill people in the ocean here and everywhere else…
being in the wrong place at the wrong time including unmanaged health issues
banging your head on something and passing out
getting caught in a rip (most common)
I’ve never heard of anyone ever killed by a bad surf report.
It you don’t respect the ocean to spend the time to see how just big the waves are and how the ocean is moving or make a good decision on when you do find out up close and personal then you suffer the consequences.
I like our informal local lineup rating among ourselves…
stay…
-small kine
-beeg
-too beeg
as well as
woz…
-weak
-juicy
-spooky
and it’s always a different scale depending on who you’re talking too…
here’s the classic hawaiian drowning scenerio it happens over and over again no matter how many signs and lifeguard stations we post.
a party of tourists standing too close to the ocean on a rock ledge or beach mesmerized by the beauty and not paying attention to watch happens when the sets roll in or how the current is moving because they don’t respect/understand the forces of nature. All of a sudden boom and you have a bunch of panicking tourist in the danger zone who will mostly likely drown or cause some brave soul trying to save them to drown…
Then of course you have waikiki which like you said is another world altogethor, makes you wonder if that’s why god made the box jelly fish cycle appear here so he could get back at all those masses of ocean urinating and defecating tourists in waikiki and places like it such as barbers point.
Knee High ,Waist High ,Chest high ,Sholder high ,Head high, Overhead.
I got out of the Hawaiian scale years ago. Juice and power are totally different topic.
Surfed Carlsbad today. Turnarounds was in the chest high range around noon. Sandbars working good.Tide going high slowing things down. Great session…
Came back around 5:00 pm. Terramar looked small and weak. Not worth going out. Turnarounds was going off. The swell was hitting it just right. I’d still call it chest high but the power was there. Almost double the power of my lunchtime session.
I think the so-called Hawaiian style of measuring from the back is the biggest pile of BS ever and a relatively modern invention. Has anyone actually tried to measure a wave from the back? Some slab/ledge style waves (ie chopes, Waimea) are practically backless. As far as going with the original measurement method the Duke and Tom Blake both make references to surfing 20foot waves on the South Shore. All logic and probability point to them referring to the face height (ie the distance from crest to trough). Any historians care to weigh in on this point.
From my experiences on the NS the general method used to calculate “Hawaiian style” wave heights is to take the face height and halve it. Eg. 30-40 foot faces at the Bay is 15-20 foot Hawaiian etc etc. My theory is this measurement style was developed by Californians in the 50’s to enhance the machismo of big-wave surfing.
But yeah, changing surf reports is not gonna stop tourists drowning. Steve