4wfs, Probox, Lokbox, even FCS.
They all have a presence here, even the FCS guy said that he visits often to “keep his finger on the pulse”.
It seems like they would want to advertise to support the community that they are trying to garner support from.
Not looking for an argument, just curious.
I don’t know what adverising costs but probably comes down to money and budgets.
Because I’m in manufacturing and don’t get a voice in how marketing dollars are spent.
they should at least be in the industries section (read the rules)
they should advertise (on princple alone)
HUIE
they already get tons of free advertising here. I am not begruding, lokbox, probox, or 4wfs.
yes & i am one of the culprits
larry dean lockbox surftruks are suportive on this forum
but i do question the sudden aperance of the other fellow
huie
4wfs, Probox, Lokbox, even FCS do advertise here by just by posting, its called networking and its free (except for time). I appreciate all the information that they share about their products, and it makes me want to send my business their way.
but i do question the sudden aperance of the other fellow
Just to clarify, fcseast (Ron Long) posted because some incorrect speculation had occured on here
regarding the Fusion system ‘‘replacing’’ the normal FCS set-up. The beginning of his first post talks
about that. He just came on to set the record straight. Instead of a “welcome to swaylock’s”, he got
hammered.
But being a capable individual, he handled it in exemplary fashion. I bet we’ll hear more from them
down the road…
Mike
Quote:but i do question the sudden aperance of the other fellow
Just to clarify, fcseast (Ron Long) posted because some incorrect speculation had occured on here
regarding the Fusion system ‘‘replacing’’ the normal FCS set-up. The beginning of his first post talks
about that. He just came on to set the record straight. Instead of a “welcome to swaylock’s”, he got
hammered.
But being a capable individual, he handled it in exemplary fashion. I bet we’ll hear more from them
down the road…
Mike
Hammered? You should go back to the archives. FCS has not posted here very often and some folks had some questions they wanted answered and misconceptions they wanted corrected. Why should there be a welcome to swaylocks. None of us really got it. If what you have to say has merit, then this is a pretty responsive group with varied opinions. There is alot of experience here. Most post were positive towards Ronnie, even if the posters didn’t agree with everything he said. Let me also remind you of Ronnies first post…he did say " Not to insult the other systems…But…and then went on to point out some of what he considered their failings or how his product was better. He was no less promoting his company than the other systems that write here. The difference is…the other systems have been posting here in various ways …including helpful information much longer and more often. Would you think the owners of the other systems might be equally as sensitive about their product as FCS has been about theirs? I like that Ronnie spoke up and stated his position. Let me be the first…
Welcome to Swaylocks FCS and company!!
I didn’t see anyone speculate that the new system was replacing the old. Only the normal questions about product and business practices. Some here have felt like they got treated poorly by FCS and as Ronnie said himself…FCS is used to it. That must mean something they do riles some people. If I was a company exec for them, I wouldn’t be angry or try to correct people with that perception…I would listen and attempt to change my company for the better. My personal opinion is they should put Ronnie much higher up on the ladder than some that have been there. Especially that ridiculous guy now heading up Global Surf Industries of China. His attitude is what some of us here remember for awhile with FCS. I think Ron is a great example of how folks want to see their representatives handing themselves.
The only person hammered on this thread was Bryant telling folks to crawl out from under rocks or something and even that mellowed out.
As for advertising: What made swaylocks great was not and is not advertising. It’s been the helpful and intelligent dialog from the many experienced folks that inhabit this forum. These people are why others want to advertise here and why companies such as FCS, Firewire and others watch this site to get a feel on the pulse. Take away the controversy and honesty and you have no swaylocks. Only another magazine out to promote it’s advertisers.
I appreciate Swaylocks
I think both FCS east and Bryant did a good job fielding all the questions thrown at them. Which ain’t easy sometimes. It’s also hard not to get over aggressive towards negative stuff hurled at you. The easy way is to disappear by running the other direction(believe me I’ve considered it many times). They didn’t, and stepped up. Kudos to them for that. Shows they have grit.
As far as advertising, for us it’s about budget. At this time we put every single red cent back into the company. 4 tradeshows a year and some other events. We like the hands on approach to promotion. It’s good to meet the people and let them have a bit of hands on. Advertising is tough. Which venue? How big of ads? Full color or black and white? Close to 5 grand for a full page,4 color ad in surfermag. Plus once you start you can’t really stop or everyone thinks your out of business. Consider that next time your bummed about a $260 for a jig that’ll last for years. That full page will be basically gone in 30 days. My partners and I would love to advertise more, and will as time goes on. For now it’s about keeping the customers we have as happy as possible, and attempt to grow more at the same time. I post here because I enjoy it and it’s fun. I’ve learned alot of stuff from this site, and met some good friends. Love seeing all the different boards and construction methods. Some of you guys are like the full on mad scientists. It amazes me some of the stuff you guys do. If this company tanked tomorrow you’d still see me posting here just the same. Probably have to change my handle though lol. So thanks for all your support. Jim
This topic was in no way a stab at the informative members of the community like tomatdaum, Lokbox, Probox-Larry, and others. I have learned a shitload from their posts, and explanations. I think that they are very important and essential members of the community.
I don’t know how many members there are here. How many visitors the site gets a day. How much it costs to run a banner ad here. But I do know that it takes time and money to run this place, hence the banner ads that are in place. And I do know that the companies that have representatives that post here probably get a good bit of business because of their presence here.
It just got me thinking when I read that the FCS guy visits to “keep his finger on the pulse” of the industry, and the 4wfs guy has a post with his url in the title. I started wondering why they don’t advertise here, not only to get new business, but to garner respect from the members of the surfboard making community, and support this resource that is a very effective marketing tool for them.
I would much rather see a Lokbox, or Probox, or FCS, or 4wfs add than a Boardworks or Surftech ad.
I would much rather see a Lokbox, or Probox, or FCS, or 4wfs add than a Boardworks or Surftech ad.
And when they put out an ad right next to that bunch, they look like they are part of the same thing. Most of those you mentioned have gotten were they are because of reputation and not ads. There are two industries…the ad side that sell sell sell themselves and the other side which sells informatively without placing ads. One way the customers can be hoodwinked…the other way the customer gets alot of free info while reading some great well thought out post.
Look at those boardworks and Surftech ads…would you want to buy one of those boards after seeing them?
I think both FCS east and Bryant did a good job fielding all the questions thrown at them. Which ain't easy sometimes. It's also hard not to get over aggressive towards negative stuff hurled at you. The easy way is to disappear by running the other direction(believe me I've considered it many times). They didn't, and stepped up. Kudos to them for that. Shows they have grit.Lokbox,
It is interesting you say they “did a good job fielding all the questions” because they INVITED the questions yet avoided answering most of them by acting like they were being unfairly victimised and the ‘GRIT’ they showed was about 20 grade and used to try and grind many of the questions into dust.
Did anyone see an answer to what can be done about the massive number of P=2 plugs in circulation, will FCS swap them for new stock or even contribute to the last line of posts on the thread in question re plug bonding/pigment/heat/cracking issues. Ron himself admitted the P-2 plugs are failing. They have been aware of this problem for years now but shut up about it. They skipped over answering or denying that point.
Jim you must have an idea of market share and nobody has challenged my guess that FCS have 50% of a 700,000 board annual market. They are a huge company when compared to their average customer and have reduced their advertising presence to a mere fraction of what it used to be. Unlike you, they never contribute to Sways to advise or help then Whammo the big fancy pics and all news about a new system directly aimed at being sold to Swaylockians.
It’s good that they are now jioning in and it is accepted there will be questions that are tough for them, but jeez we all have to pay our dues and earn respect, sit on the edge of the lineup and show the locals some respect.
Quote:I would much rather see a Lokbox, or Probox, or FCS, or 4wfs add than a Boardworks or Surftech ad.
And when they put out an ad right next to that bunch, they look like they are part of the same thing. Most of those you mentioned have gotten were they are because of reputation and not ads. There are two industries…the ad side that sell sell sell themselves and the other side which sells informatively without placing ads. One way the customers can be hoodwinked…the other way the customer gets alot of free info while reading some great well thought out post.
Look at those boardworks and Surftech ads…would you want to buy one of those boards after seeing them?
I guess… if you are working under the assumption that the boardworks and Surftech ads would still be necessary if the businesses who are members of the community helped pay for the community.
Quote:Quote:I would much rather see a Lokbox, or Probox, or FCS, or 4wfs add than a Boardworks or Surftech ad.
And when they put out an ad right next to that bunch, they look like they are part of the same thing. Most of those you mentioned have gotten were they are because of reputation and not ads. There are two industries…the ad side that sell sell sell themselves and the other side which sells informatively without placing ads. One way the customers can be hoodwinked…the other way the customer gets alot of free info while reading some great well thought out post.
Look at those boardworks and Surftech ads…would you want to buy one of those boards after seeing them?
I guess… if you are working under the assumption that the boardworks and Surftech ads would still be necessary if the businesses who are members of the community helped pay for the community.
The ads are business. I have no issue with them. I post here and read here because of the wealth of information. I see the point your making…I think many that post here are small business with limited budgets.
(((I never see a single ad, Surftech or otherwise, on the internet anymore since I installed a certain browser and their
a d
b l o c k
i n g
program.
Swaylocks loads twice as fast too.)))
anyway,
I appreciate the respect FCS guys showed the community by continuing to answer questions as best they can given the company’s proprietary interests in a brand new product and their existing ones. It’s a pretty straightforward thing they do with distribution and marketing of a product that works, and they’ve got it dialed–any upstart in any business does what they can to keep their brand in your field of view–the incumbent just quietly keeps doing what they’re doing and paying market rates for advertising.
The best most risk-free thing they can do is keep their finger on the pulse, keep developing products with the market, and check in once in a while with a good message. FCS is a business we can only wish we had a stake in. And if they had a couple of hotheads check in here, can you imagine how fast it would have gone south? You would be stoked to have a couple of pros working for you as good as Ron and Bryant.
This whole thing elicits a thought …
I just gotta wish ProBox Larry and 4Way best of luck as they can get without the bromotion LokBox enjoys at Surfermag – good luck to the other glassers, shapers, etc that don’t have the bro deal there. You wanna find some shameless freeloading–JP might be a heck of nice guy, but he is a moderator at the sport’s biggest mag website, and the Moonlight crew over there (Design Forum) is oozing networked-marketing shamelessly–that show is online all the time at surfermag.com–and infiltrating here too in a big way–free-vertising up the arse. Good work they do do, but it is (insert choice of adjectives or nouns) having an employee (“moderator”) of the mag’s website itself being a full-time emp of a company that is constantly advertising on threads, and for all his friends/associates.
The ads are business. I have no issue with them. I post here and read here because of the wealth of information. I see the point your making…I think many that post here are small business with limited budgets.
I see your point too. The information and assistance they supply is payment enough.
“JP might be a heck of nice guy, but he is a moderator at the sport’s biggest mag website, and the Moonlight crew over there (Design Forum) is oozing networked-marketing shamelessly–that show is online all the time at surfermag.com–and infiltrating here too in a big way–free-vertising up the arse. Good work they do do, but it is (insert choice of adjectives or nouns) having an employee (”moderator") of the mag’s website itself being a full-time emp of a company that is constantly advertising on threads, and for all his friends/associates"
Janklow, couple of things about this statement. Knowing him personally I can promise you his intentions are not to pimp out his company on that site. In fact, he hardly posts pics there anymore since he started his blog. Posts almost everything there nowadays. There’s a bigger picture there that maybe you are not seeing. Scott Bass brought him in as moderator because at the time he was very active on that site, showed lot’s of interest in design (like Scott), and helping to run a top quality glasshop, had the know how to be considered very knowledgeable on surfboard design.
Think about it for a second. Open any surfer mag and you see pop-out ads, and ads for mass produced clear sand finish boards. Go on their site to the design forum and it’s fish,bonzer,quad,swirl,gloss,pinline,polish. Doesn’t make any sense right? There was a few discussions between the three of us and a few others and we made a pact to keep the custom surfboard industry alive by flooding that site with photos of our craft. Soon as someone figures out what we’re doing we’d change it. Keep 'em guessing ya know? Check the photo section sometime and you’ll see that I am the #1 photo poster there, of which MAYBE…10 or 15 % are Lokbox related. Of couse if the custom market survived, then my company may not fail as we cater mostly to it. So I guess you could say that’s what I get or GOT, out of it. But almost all of my best friends are surfboard builders so it wasn’t all about me. Trying to protect them as well. So there was a plan, and luckily for us Bassy was able to convince his bosses to let us keep doing our thing. Considering the activity that site gets regarding custom boards they’d be crazy to stop it now. As far as moderating the site he can’t ban anyone, only lock threads or sticky note stuff and I can’t remember the last time he did either one.
The other day I was pondering what our industry would look like right now if surfermag forum or swaylocks didn’t exist. Imagine how much we all would have missed out on. Only way you find out about something is if you see it in person, at a tradeshow, or someone told you about it. The offshore invasion would have looked like pearl harbor. Now, at least they gotta work for it. If the retro resurgence is even 1% responsible for the survival of the custom market I say retro retro retro woohoo!!